Author Topic: Russia - worrying?  (Read 363919 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2820 on: June 17, 2023, 10:30:AM »

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2821 on: June 17, 2023, 05:57:PM »
Attacks In Border Towns And Cities Bring The War To Russia's Doorstep

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-belgorod-attacks-ukraine-war-/32463704.html

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2822 on: June 17, 2023, 06:04:PM »
Where’s Putin? The Russian leader is losing control

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-russian-leader-is-losing-control/

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2823 on: June 17, 2023, 09:13:PM »
Commander of anti-aircraft gunners tells how they shot down Kinzhal hypersonic missiles over Kyiv.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/15/7406969/
   Let's examine one of your ridiculous claims. If the above were true then the consequences would be enormous, especially as the Ukrainians are now "claiming" to have shot down six more out of six! Russia claim that the hypersonic missiles, such as Khinzal, cannot be intercepted by any current air defence system. In other words, Russia admit that their own state of the art air defence cannot currently intercept hypersonics.
    Raytheon would be shouting this from the rooftops. The only air defence system in the world able to intercept hypersonics. Can you imagine the orders that must be coming into Raytheon now for Patriot Systems-the only air defence system in the world capable of intercepting hypersonic missiles. None of this is happening and Raytheon are making no such claims-just some bloke in Ukrainian Pravda.
     Why would this be-do you think?
     The only Khinzal that the Patriot "intercepted" was at ground level. To believe otherwise shows how gullible and willing to believe anything you are.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2824 on: June 17, 2023, 09:26:PM »
   Let's examine one of your ridiculous claims. If the above were true then the consequences would be enormous, especially as the Ukrainians are now "claiming" to have shot down six more out of six! Russia claim that the hypersonic missiles, such as Khinzal, cannot be intercepted by any current air defence system. In other words, Russia admit that their own state of the art air defence cannot currently intercept hypersonics.
    Raytheon would be shouting this from the rooftops. The only air defence system in the world able to intercept hypersonics. Can you imagine the orders that must be coming into Raytheon now for Patriot Systems-the only air defence system in the world capable of intercepting hypersonic missiles. None of this is happening and Raytheon are making no such claims-just some bloke in Ukrainian Pravda.
     Why would this be-do you think?
     The only Khinzal that the Patriot "intercepted" was at ground level. To believe otherwise shows how gullible and willing to believe anything you are.
    It is worth adding to the above that this would also surely be a first in Research and Development where the answer was developed before the question. To be able to nullify a threat- you first have to develop the threat.
     The US have not got hypersonic missile technology-how credible is it that they have however developed anti-hypersonic defences. Because a Ukrainian bloke claims it.
     Do you know how to apply critical thinking at all, David? This story falls apart on contact with air!  ::)

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2825 on: June 17, 2023, 10:50:PM »
    The reality of the Ukrainian "Counter Offensive"- and the decisions facing NATO at their upcoming summit in July. M.K.Bhadrakumar -  "Russia won’t let Ukraine be bleeding wound". Full article in link-short excerpt below;

https://www.indianpunchline.com/russia-wont-let-ukraine-be-bleeding-wound/

"With the Ukrainian offensive under way for a fortnight, all eyes are on the battlefields, and, crucially, Russia’s options ahead. In a little over three weeks from now, the NATO will be holding a summit in Vilnius and the West has choices to make too. We are arriving at a fork in the road.

The NATO expected the Ukrainian forces to punch through key Russian fortifications by now. In reality, they are struggling to get anywhere near the sprawling layered fortifications and in that desperate attempt, are taking  massive losses, entrapped in minefields and taken to pieces by Russian artillery and missiles and the dreaded multi-role attack helicopters known as Alligator.

The signposts are best seen in Russian President Vladimir Putin’s Kremlin press conference on Tuesday, lasting over three hours, with war correspondents. In just a week’s time after Ukraine’s offensive began, “25–30 percent of the supplied equipment (from NATO) has been destroyed,” Putin said.

Putin underscored three things..."

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2826 on: June 18, 2023, 04:38:PM »
    The reality of the Ukrainian "Counter Offensive"- and the decisions facing NATO at their upcoming summit in July. M.K.Bhadrakumar -  "Russia won’t let Ukraine be bleeding wound". Full article in link-short excerpt below;

https://www.indianpunchline.com/russia-wont-let-ukraine-be-bleeding-wound/

"With the Ukrainian offensive under way for a fortnight, all eyes are on the battlefields, and, crucially, Russia’s options ahead. In a little over three weeks from now, the NATO will be holding a summit in Vilnius and the West has choices to make too. We are arriving at a fork in the road.

The NATO expected the Ukrainian forces to punch through key Russian fortifications by now. In reality, they are struggling to get anywhere near the sprawling layered fortifications and in that desperate attempt, are taking  massive losses, entrapped in minefields and taken to pieces by Russian artillery and missiles and the dreaded multi-role attack helicopters known as Alligator.

The signposts are best seen in Russian President Vladimir Putin’s Kremlin press conference on Tuesday, lasting over three hours, with war correspondents. In just a week’s time after Ukraine’s offensive began, “25–30 percent of the supplied equipment (from NATO) has been destroyed,” Putin said.

Putin underscored three things..."

Let's cut to the chase gringo: what will the settlement or the outcome of this war be?

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2827 on: June 18, 2023, 06:13:PM »
   Let's examine one of your ridiculous claims. If the above were true then the consequences would be enormous, especially as the Ukrainians are now "claiming" to have shot down six more out of six! Russia claim that the hypersonic missiles, such as Khinzal, cannot be intercepted by any current air defence system. In other words, Russia admit that their own state of the art air defence cannot currently intercept hypersonics.
    Raytheon would be shouting this from the rooftops. The only air defence system in the world able to intercept hypersonics. Can you imagine the orders that must be coming into Raytheon now for Patriot Systems-the only air defence system in the world capable of intercepting hypersonic missiles. None of this is happening and Raytheon are making no such claims-just some bloke in Ukrainian Pravda.
     Why would this be-do you think?
     The only Khinzal that the Patriot "intercepted" was at ground level. To believe otherwise shows how gullible and willing to believe anything you are.

That was the latest ramblings from Tankie fantasy world folks. Hope you all had a good laugh and stay tuned for next week's update!

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2828 on: June 18, 2023, 06:36:PM »
   Raytheon are making no such claims

🤡

"A software tweak has enabled PATRIOT missile defense systems to intercept hypersonic missiles in Ukraine, according to Gregory J. Hayes, chairman and chief executive officer of Raytheon Technologies which manufactures the PATRIOT."

Gregory J. Hayes, chairman and chief executive officer of Raytheon

« Last Edit: June 18, 2023, 06:38:PM by David1819 »

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2829 on: June 18, 2023, 07:50:PM »
To be able to nullify a threat- you first have to develop the threat.

🤡

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2830 on: June 18, 2023, 09:17:PM »
Let's cut to the chase gringo: what will the settlement or the outcome of this war be?
    The security proposals put forward by Russia in December 2021 will, in my opinion, be the basis of any negotiated settlement. There is no doubt that Russia will achieve their goals in Ukraine and there never has been. Either militarily or via negotiation, the end result will be the removal of any NATO missiles from Russian borders. This includes Romania, Poland et al. The proposals are outlined below but were ignored by the US/NATO/EU who were all given the proposals and invited to respond. Their response was exactly as expected. They ignored and derided Russia for having the temerity to demand to speak as equals .

https://tass.com/politics/1421141

    NATO belligerence via their proxy Ukraine means that the terms being offered will get worse each time. Where previously Russia would have settled for referenda and self determination in Donetsk, Luhansk and Crimea-that ship has sailed.
    The speeches and pronouncements by Putin and other official Russian spokespersons have made clear that increasing belligerence by NATO are only leading to expanded Russian goals.
    I expect that Odessa, Nikolaev, Kharkiv, Sumy, Zaporizhzhia along with Kherson, Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk will all have referendums and separate from Ukraine.
    The old scores to be settled in the west of Ukraine are a different kettle of fish. The Poles, Hungary, Romania-all may take previously Polish, Hungarian etc. land. There is much bad blood still simmering from WW2 and atrocities committed by the Ukrainian Nazis particularly in those areas(Galicia, Lvov). Ukraine will be, at best, a rump state with no coastal access and probably will cease to exist as a state.
    When Ukraine is done, and Russia are in no rush, then the other matters of mutual security will be addressed. The world is changing, Steve. We are living through a moment of history that changes the world. The mutual security guarantees that Russia proposed in December 2021 will be implemented.
    Russia's goals at the start of the SMO were made clear. The whole "can't take Kiev in 3 days" and other bullshit is a western invention to support their pre-ordained narrative of Russian failure. Russia have never stated that they would take Kiev in 3 days. They could. It would cause great destruction and cause massive civilian deaths. Which is why they don't. NATO have no such qualms about civilian casualties (collateral damage) and use shock and awe tactics on civilians. This mindset is projected onto everybody else.
    Russia's goals were demilitarisating and de-Nazifying Ukraine. Not conquering territory. When Ukraine is demilitarised and de-Nazified(this is a euphemism for De-NATOfied by the way) then each oblast will decide for themselves via referenda what their future is. The true losses will no longer be able to be hidden or obfuscated in western media very soon. Ukraine/NATO are getting slaughtered and attrited at rates that they cannot sustain.
    I have asked before but received no reply on this question. What do you think Ukrainian/NATO victory even is? Can you define it? Is a Ukrainian/NATO victory even possible? Does it include Crimea? Donetsk? etc. What happens to the now pro-Russian people that Ukraine would be governing?
     There is no realistic scenario of Ukrainian/NATO victory that I can see that settles anything. The only way is self determination of the Ukrainians, oblast by oblast. Russia would not oppose this. A map of every Ukrainian election since 1991 shows quite clearly the divide between the largely ethnic Russian East and South and the west of Ukraine. Many oblasts would vote to join Russia or become independent but aligned with Russia. This is well known even though it isn't discussed in any western "analysis".
     
« Last Edit: June 18, 2023, 09:40:PM by gringo »

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2831 on: June 18, 2023, 09:34:PM »
🤡

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown
   The US threat wasn't as advertised was it? It wasn't stealth. It could be seen-it wasn't invisible to radar. So the point stands.
     On the question of Patriots shooting down Khinzals. Do you believe this to be true? And if yes-based on what evidence. You are just attempting to distract from your own dumbness and gullibility as it sinks in how dumb your claim and evidence is.
     Why aren't Raytheon making this claim?
     

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2832 on: June 18, 2023, 10:35:PM »
Let's cut to the chase gringo: what will the settlement or the outcome of this war be?
    Another outcome that I expect is that after NATO/Ukraine are defeated militarily that it will mark the beginning of the end for NATO. The fissures are already deep. Hungary nor Turkey would be joining any belligerence against Russia. Turkey is the second largest armed forces in NATO(behind only the US). Who honestly believes that US citizens would support US boots on the ground-in Ukraine against Russia? Given that-How can NATO get enough boots and secure supply lines on the ground and defeat Russia-on the Russian border. It has always been delusional.
     NATO's purpose since the break up of the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact means it can no longer be seen as a defensive alliance. That it ever was anything but an offensive alliance is surely clear now. Since the break up of the Warsaw Pact Nato has shown it's "defensive" nature in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan and on and on. The mask is well and truly removed now, the world can see and is unafraid to speak out now against the NATO/Nazi machine.
     After an unambiguous defeat by Russia-the power is gone.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2833 on: June 18, 2023, 11:35:PM »
Let's cut to the chase gringo: what will the settlement or the outcome of this war be?
    From the earlier Bhadrakumar article;

  Andres Rasmussen, former NATO chief and presently official advisor to Ukrainian President Zelensky, has threatened that a group of NATO countries may be willing to put troops on the ground in Ukraine if member states including the US do not provide tangible security guarantees to Kiev at the Vilnius summit.

Specifically, Rasmussen claimed that “Poles would seriously consider going in and assemble a coalition of the willing if Ukraine doesn’t get anything in Vilnius. We shouldn’t underestimate the Polish feelings, the Poles feel that for too long western Europe did not listen to their warnings.” The rhetoric took a heightened tone lately at the meeting of Heads of State and Government in the format “Weimar Triangle” (France-Poland-Germany) on June 12 in Paris where a consensus emerged that Ukraine should receive some security guarantees.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz declared, “It is evident that we need something like this, and we need it in a very concrete form.” French President Emmanuel Macron also called for a rapid agreement on “tangible and credible security guarantees.”

Indeed, this is all bluster. The idea of Poland “putting boots on the ground” is so patently absurd. The Polish military it will wither away in a confrontation with Russia. But what such theatrics show is that nerves are on edge as the spectre of defeat in Ukraine is endangering NATO’s unity.

So, Jens Stoltenberg, NATO secretary-general, stepped in to inject some realism into the discussion, pointing out that for the present what matters most is that Ukraine survives as a nation. Stoltenberg stated: “I believe it’s not possible to give precise dates (for Ukraine’s admission as NATO member) when we are in the midst of a war… the most urgent task now is to ensure that Ukraine prevails as a sovereign, independent nation… because, unless Ukraine prevails, then there’s no membership to be discussed at all, because it’s only a sovereign, independent, democratic Ukraine that can become a NATO member.”

Stoltenberg took the cue from Washington. In fact, he was speaking while on a visit to Washington, in an interview with PBS.

Russia is not taking the eyes off the battlefield. In reality, Moscow is shoving down the western throat a historic strategic defeat. The choice for the West narrows down to negotiating with Russia on its terms, or to expect a military solution, which might mean the obliteration of Ukraine as a nation and the eviction of NATO.
[/b] 

    The above shows the hopelessness of NATO/Ukraine's position. There is no realistically achievable goal. The so-called "Sanctions from Hell" were meant to damage Russia and only worked to strengthen Russia and weaken the sanctioners. The military attempt is ending in the same way the economic sanctions "worked".

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #2834 on: June 19, 2023, 08:12:AM »
Russia charges hypersonic missile scientists with treason!?

https://youtu.be/xzCcvPvCXuI?t=3