Russia - worrying?

[gringo]

The Minsk agreements always were ambiguous in character. They offered Donetsk and Luhansk autonomy, but not independence from Kiev. This statement from the German ambassador three days before the invasion sums up my thoughts. https://new-york-un.diplo.de/un-en/news-corner/-/2512746

   Tell me what was ambiguous about them instead of just repeating the claim. The link that you claim "sums up your thoughts" is from 2022 after the recognition of the independence of the oblasts. Nothing about ambiguity, just the German ambassador crying that Russia had breached Minsk 2 with this recognition. In truth, he was crying because Russia had pre-empted the plans that they have admitted to(the buying time to arm Ukraine to attack). Ukraine/NATO have admitted they had no intention ever of honouring Minsk, have breached it every day since its adoption and then cry that Russia are in breach when they finally act against this perfidy.
   If they were "always ambiguous" then surely you have something to describe this ambiguity from 2015 onwards. Here are the Minsk 2 agreements below. There are only 13 points. All UNSC veto wielding members agreed to its adoption as a binding resolution. Tell us what is ambiguous;

https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/UA_150212_MinskAgreement_en.pdf

[gringo]

The Minsk agreements always were ambiguous in character. They offered Donetsk and Luhansk autonomy, but not independence from Kiev. This statement from the German ambassador three days before the invasion sums up my thoughts. https://new-york-un.diplo.de/un-en/news-corner/-/2512746

   Why can't you sum up your own thoughts? German ambassador doesn't mention ambiguity. You are unwilling/unable to view any of this objectively and simply repeat the mantras that you have been trained to. Even faced with public confessions of Western perfidy, you still blame Russia.
     

[Steve_uk]

   Tell me what was ambiguous about them instead of just repeating the claim. The link that you claim "sums up your thoughts" is from 2022 after the recognition of the independence of the oblasts. Nothing about ambiguity, just the German ambassador crying that Russia had breached Minsk 2 with this recognition. In truth, he was crying because Russia had pre-empted the plans that they have admitted to(the buying time to arm Ukraine to attack). Ukraine/NATO have admitted they had no intention ever of honouring Minsk, have breached it every day since its adoption and then cry that Russia are in breach when they finally act against this perfidy.
   If they were "always ambiguous" then surely you have something to describe this ambiguity from 2015 onwards. Here are the Minsk 2 agreements below. There are only 13 points. All UNSC veto wielding members agreed to its adoption as a binding resolution. Tell us what is ambiguous;

https://peacemaker.un.org/sites/peacemaker.un.org/files/UA_150212_MinskAgreement_en.pdf

You and Putin are living under the illusion that the Minsk agreements gave him carte blanche to dismember the Ukrainian state. Article 10 states a role for the OSCE in elections once all foreign troops and mercenaries had been removed from Ukrainian territory, with Article 12 proposing elections under the auspices of the OSCE/ODIHR.

Free elections not held under the barrel of a gun: of course Putin was not going to oblige.

[Steve_uk]

   Why can't you sum up your own thoughts? German ambassador doesn't mention ambiguity. You are unwilling/unable to view any of this objectively and simply repeat the mantras that you have been trained to. Even faced with public confessions of Western perfidy, you still blame Russia.
     

No country could allow part of its territory to de facto secede from its contol with its own courts, its own army and the ability to conclude pacts with foreign powers. It reminds me of the Anschluss of March 1938 and the carving up of Czechoslovakia in September of the same year.

[Steve_uk]

   It isn't what I mean. It is what is being carried out by resource rich trading nations now. Saudi Arabia, the ultimate underpinning of the petrodollar, have announced that they are open to trade in currencies other than the dollar. A huge announcement but not reported much, if at all, in western media. Doesn't suit their sanctions are working-Russia is isolated bullshit. Trust in the dollar and western finance/banking has been irreparably damaged. I have linked to articles that directly quote the finance ministers and central bankers of countries in the expanding BRICS+. It isn't just some theory that I have made up. It is being discussed and implemented now.
   

16% of world trade-big deal.

[gringo]

You and Putin are living under the illusion that the Minsk agreements gave him carte blanche to dismember the Ukrainian state. Article 10 states a role for the OSCE in elections once all foreign troops and mercenaries had been removed from Ukrainian territory, with Article 12 proposing elections under the auspices of the OSCE/ODIHR.

Free elections not held under the barrel of a gun: of course Putin was not going to oblige.

   You sound hysterical and incoherent.
    You refer to the Minsk agreements as being broken by Russia(they weren't) but as ambiguous when Ukraine/NATO admit to ignoring them from the beginning. You need to address this. You cannot have it both ways.
     Minsk 2 implementation was ignored from the start by Ukraine/NATO. They have admitted this-Unambiguously!
    The foreign troops and mercenaries weren't removed were they. NATO got their "mercenaries" out of the cauldron at Debaltseve(the reason they "agreed" with Minsk 2) but then spent the next seven years ignoring any of their obligations. They have admitted this.
    Your position in a nutshell is this;
    Ukraine/NATO countries admit that they never had any intention of abiding by Minsk 2 and would use the time to arm and prepare an attack- Steve- "Minsk 2 is ambiguous"
    Russia act after 7/8 years just as Ukraine/NATO increase shelling and troop build up in preparation for an assault-Steve- Russia broke Minsk 2

     This is the incoherence of your position.
   

[gringo]

No country could allow part of its territory to de facto secede from its contol with its own courts, its own army and the ability to conclude pacts with foreign powers. - Steve

    Like NATO broke up Yugoslavia you mean. Kosovo/Serbia no referendum. Self determination is something that you previously claim to support. Why don't you support the self determination of those in Donetsk, Crimea etc. but you support the imposed separation in former Yugoslavia republics?
    You have no consistency in your supposed analysis of geopolitics-just brainwashed Russia hate. There is a massive elephant in the room, Steve. NATO wars and aggression, especially since 1990, are ignored in your "analysis" and everyone but NATO blamed. Does it never occur to you that the one consistent theme is NATO aggression against another sovereign state-to uphold "peace"? Maybe it's NATO who are the threat to world peace rather than everybody else?
   

[David1819]

Wagner chief 'frees' Russian convicts who fought in Ukraine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxbaU4IrI_Q

[Steve_uk]

No country could allow part of its territory to de facto secede from its contol with its own courts, its own army and the ability to conclude pacts with foreign powers. - Steve

    Like NATO broke up Yugoslavia you mean. Kosovo/Serbia no referendum. Self determination is something that you previously claim to support. Why don't you support the self determination of those in Donetsk, Crimea etc. but you support the imposed separation in former Yugoslavia republics?
    You have no consistency in your supposed analysis of geopolitics-just brainwashed Russia hate. There is a massive elephant in the room, Steve. NATO wars and aggression, especially since 1990, are ignored in your "analysis" and everyone but NATO blamed. Does it never occur to you that the one consistent theme is NATO aggression against another sovereign state-to uphold "peace"? Maybe it's NATO who are the threat to world peace rather than everybody else?
   

You're forgetting the 1995 Srebrenica massacre of 8000 Muslim males. It was in this context to prevent further bloodshed that NATO intervened. It should not have been regarded as a precedent for the Russian invasion of Ukraine as the Foreign Affairs Select Committee subsequently admitted it was technically illegal. There is no such body in Russia which would ever challenge Putin's authority in this way.

[Steve_uk]

   You sound hysterical and incoherent.
    You refer to the Minsk agreements as being broken by Russia(they weren't) but as ambiguous when Ukraine/NATO admit to ignoring them from the beginning. You need to address this. You cannot have it both ways.
     Minsk 2 implementation was ignored from the start by Ukraine/NATO. They have admitted this-Unambiguously!
    The foreign troops and mercenaries weren't removed were they. NATO got their "mercenaries" out of the cauldron at Debaltseve(the reason they "agreed" with Minsk 2) but then spent the next seven years ignoring any of their obligations. They have admitted this.
    Your position in a nutshell is this;
    Ukraine/NATO countries admit that they never had any intention of abiding by Minsk 2 and would use the time to arm and prepare an attack- Steve- "Minsk 2 is ambiguous"
    Russia act after 7/8 years just as Ukraine/NATO increase shelling and troop build up in preparation for an assault-Steve- Russia broke Minsk 2

     This is the incoherence of your position.
   

This was the ambiguity I referred to in earlier posts: Ukraine expected to assert full control over its territory before any autonomy for Luhansk and Donetsk, whereas Russia was never going to allow the OSCE/ODIHR to hold free and fair elections in the region.

[David1819]

Who are the Wagner mercenary group being led by ‘Putin’s chef’?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq1P3qq4W18

[gringo]

This was the ambiguity I referred to in earlier posts: Ukraine expected to assert full control over its territory before any autonomy for Luhansk and Donetsk, whereas Russia was never going to allow the OSCE/ODIHR to hold free and fair elections in the region.

   Have you even read the agreements? There are only 13 points and it is barely more than a page. It is clear that full withdrawal was required first and then negotiations over autonomy. Not ambiguous at all. Ukraine/NATO admitting that there was no intention to negotiate or abide by the agreements is also a "problem" especially whilst simultaneously claiming their "expectations" were not fulfilled.
     "Expectations" from a UNSC resolution, whose language is clear, that you never(admittedly) had any intention of abiding by. What kind of idiotic reasoning is this?

[gringo]

Who are the Wagner mercenary group being led by ‘Putin’s chef’?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq1P3qq4W18

    Much the same as Academi, Mozart.
     They are probably a GRU front. Gives distance and plausible deniability. Much the same as Academi etc. are fronts for CIA, Pentagon allowing for distance and plausible deniability. I don't remember your concern about shady "mercenary" groups when only US/NATO were using them in Libya, Iraq, Syria...
    What has suddenly piqued your concern about PMC's?
    It's just Russian ones isn't it?
    And the fact that they are fucking up the Western mercs.

[David1819]

The True State of Russian Army

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KiII_2qabk

[Steve_uk]

   Have you even read the agreements? There are only 13 points and it is barely more than a page. It is clear that full withdrawal was required first and then negotiations over autonomy. Not ambiguous at all. Ukraine/NATO admitting that there was no intention to negotiate or abide by the agreements is also a "problem" especially whilst simultaneously claiming their "expectations" were not fulfilled.
     "Expectations" from a UNSC resolution, whose language is clear, that you never(admittedly) had any intention of abiding by. What kind of idiotic reasoning is this?

But Russia had been aiding and abetting the separatists and continued so to do, confirmed by the weaponry used to shoot down the Malaysian airliner one month before the agreements were signed.