Russia - worrying?

[gringo]

Some home truths and some propaganda. Which currency will replace the US dollar? The West are capitalist countries: get over it. Will Turkiye leave NATO? I doubt it. https://www.aei.org/op-eds/the-real-reason-turkey-will-never-voluntarily-leave-nato/

   That was an interesting article that you linked, Steve. The idea that Turkiye will not voluntarily leave is shared by many, largely for the reasons expressed in the link. The leverage that they have as a member does, as stated, give them power as a sort of Trojan Horse, which they would lose by leaving. There is no mechanism for expelling members so we have the quandary above.
     All of the above is true but, "that was then and this is now"
     Nobody would argue that events, especially over the last 9/10 years, are reshaping the Global Order. The US coup in Ukraine in 2014, which has ultimately led to the horror in Ukraine now. Also not to be forgotten is the attempted coup of Erdogan in 2016. Tanks on the streets, parliament bombed, arrests of many officials and military and Turkiye calling for the extradition from the US of Fethullah Gulen, the alleged instigator and protected by US intel(CIA). At around the same time the shooting down of the Russian jet by Turkiye and the killing of the Russian ambassador in Turkiye in the press conference. Whatever was going on has been memory holed by western media. Never mentioned since. Clearly western intel were neck deep in what appears an attempted coup. 
      Rather than retaliate against Turkiye, Russia restrained themselves and talked to the Turks coming to some "rapprochement". With Turkiye now having signed huge long term contracts with the Russians as a "gas hub" and application to the SCO(which disallows NATO membership) Turkiye's voluntary exit from NATO may be close.
     Global power is visibly shifting East and waning in the West. Erdogan may be many things, but he is no fool. You don't survive and prosper as long as he has without razor sharp political instincts. The west has increasingly less to offer so there is little point in playing the balancing game any longer. He can see which way the wind is blowing. He also is fully aware of who was behind the shenanigans in 2016.

[gringo]

Some home truths and some propaganda. Which currency will replace the US dollar? The West are capitalist countries: get over it. Will Turkiye leave NATO? I doubt it. https://www.aei.org/op-eds/the-real-reason-turkey-will-never-voluntarily-leave-nato/

   As to which currency will replace the dollar. Possibly the Yuan.
    The move towards national currencies in trade between countries is also growing and the basket of currencies backed by resources promoted in BRICs etc. is gaining momentum. US has abused their position with the dollar(sanctions illegal under UN charter for starters) and there are enough powerful world powers who are determined to take this power from the USA due to their flagrant abuse of the privilege.
     Whatever replaces the dollar, (Yuan, basket of nat. currencies, gold and silver, possible global currency) the dollar is getting replaced. All of the above, and more, have been suggested as the replacement.
     I would lean more towards the basket of currencies. This would more accurately reflect relative values of commodities, products, services than the current corrupted system.
     That things are changing and the dollar being dropped is the easy part of the prediction. Not even really a prediction-more an observation of events and seeing the writing on the wall. What comes next-your guess is as good as mine(unless your guess is that the dollar remains as reserve currency.)

[David1819]

    If the technology is ever put into use-then with near certainty it will be Russia who achieves it, Handyman. US military industrial complex is full of graft and corruption. Lots of money spent, magnitudes greater than the Russians, but less to show for it than Russia. Lots of rich shareholders though(and dead citizens in the countries that were the unfortunate recipients of US/NATO "interventions"), which is the name of the game in freedom and democracy loving USA. Profits, the bottom line. I know that you know this but David can't face realities like this so ignores all questions like yours.
      Of course the US doesn't have this technology in use. Nor will it have any time soon. Plenty of people getting rich off the public teat to dish out hopium and copium about their future wonder weapons to gullible, unquestioning and indoctrinated drones, though.
   

There is literally footage of the USS Portland using the laser that's been installed on it.

But according to you, a country that is deploying tanks and aircraft made in 70s whose economy is the size of Italy's will beat them to it.

I was eager to find out how the Su-57 and the T-14 would perform in combat. However neither of these have been deployed. They only have a dozen or so prototypes that appear in the red square parade.

[gringo]

There is literally footage of the USS Portland using the laser that's been installed on it.

But according to you, a country that is deploying tanks and aircraft made in 70s whose economy is the size of Italy's will beat them to it.
    Russia has already beaten the USA in the development of modern weaponry so why wouldn't they beat them to lasers also.
    Russia claim to have already developed laser weapons (Peresvet, Zadira)
    According to you a country that is way behind Russia on hypersonic missiles, air defences, electronic warfare etc. will develop laser weapons before China and Russia.
    Russia already have them. USA don't. China also claim to. You have nothing to add, as usual.
    Do you really believe that Italy have a stronger economy and are richer than Russia? Based on the wholly non representative measure of GDP? You are a fool who is only able to regurgitate the crap fed to you without bothering to think what it means.
     Russia is autarkic and has not only withstood wave after wave of sanctions designed to crush its economy-it has become stronger because of the sanctions. Those doing the sanctioning, on the other hand, have found that Russia is too big, too strong militarily, too important to the global economy and too rich in all resources to sanction. The same people who believe the crap about the weakness of the Russian economy(smaller than Italy lol!) maybe ought to be rethinking their conclusions based on actuality. Could Italy withstand and thrive under the kind of sanctions attempted on Russia? Of course not! GDP is meaningless as a measure to the strength of an economy. Something the fuckwits in Western governments are learning, in real time, to their own detriment.
     Maybe Russia will announce counter sanctions on the countries illegally imposing them on Russia.
     That would inflict real pain. Russia's economy is way more resilient than the Ponzi schemes in US/EU/UK.
     

[gringo]

    The only thing propping up the GDP of the rich West is and was NATO. Any challenge to the dollar as reserve currency had the ultimate backing of NATO. As Major General Smedley Butler observed;

 I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

I spent 33 years and 4 months In active service as a member of our country's most agile military force – the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from a second lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for capitalism.

    NATO has been shown to be a paper tiger. It's supposed omnipotence now gone forever. The muscle behind the Ponzi scheme has been stood up to. The Ponzi scheme of Western corporatism is next, now without the muscle to save it.

[David1819]

Russia has already beaten the USA in the development of modern weaponry so why wouldn't they beat them to lasers also.

Because its your premise that Russia has "beaten the USA in the development of modern weaponry" is completely false.

For example, the Russian SU-57 has a radar signature -10dB.  Whereas the F-35 has a radar signature -30dB and the F-22 has a radar signature -40dB.

Russia will always produce and design its hardware with a mentality of quantity over quality as It worked so well for them in WW2. But it comes at a price of losing many troops.

Russia claim to have already developed laser weapons (Peresvet, Zadira)

Russia claims to have a lot of things. But when it comes down to it, these weapons are not showing up when they are needed.

https://www.dw.com/en/russias-laser-weapon-in-ukraine-does-it-exist/a-61883096

[Roch]

With regards to this war Russia v Ukraine (backed by NATO), it has seemed Russia has taken a real beating and been found wanting in so many areas. However, there has also been some quite severe censorship and one sided news reporting. Taking all things in to account, I'm wondering whether the censorship was necessary. If Russia was on the front foot it would be evident on the battlefield. It doesn't seem to be. It seems to taking one step forward and two steps back. If I was a Belarusian dictator, I would be extremely wary of committing to anything involving crossing the border, as it would likely result in mass slaughter for those crossing over. I think if Russia had any real good news about the war going their way, it would find itself in the news somehow, despite all the one sided reporting.

[David1819]

Russia is too big, too strong militarily, too important to the global economy and too rich in all resources to sanction.
   

Ah yes. So strong militarily it cannot successfully occupy a weaker country on its door step. So rich and important economically that 35 million of its population have no access to a flushing toilet or basic indoor plumbing.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/indoor-plumbing-still-a-pipe-dream-for-20-of-russian-households-reports-say-a65049

https://washmatters.wateraid.org/sites/g/files/jkxoof256/files/Its_No_Joke_2015_the_state_of_the_worlds_toilets.pdf

A nation to behold 

[David1819]

With regards to this war Russia v Ukraine (backed by NATO), it has seemed Russia has taken a real beating and been found wanting in so many areas. However, there has also been some quite severe censorship and one sided news reporting. Taking all things in to account, I'm wondering whether the censorship was necessary. If Russia was on the front foot it would be evident on the battlefield. It doesn't seem to be. It seems to taking one step forward and two steps back. If I was a Belarusian dictator, I would be extremely wary of committing to anything involving crossing the border, as it would likely result in mass slaughter for those crossing over. I think if Russia had any real good news about the war going their way, it would find itself in the news somehow, despite all the one sided reporting.

Lukashenko knows that many people in his country don't like him and they can see through his fraudulent election results, he is a stale relic. If I was the Belarusian dictator, I would be extremely wary of committing to sending troops over the border, as it would likely result in them turning back around to overthrow me.

Putin and his cronies anticipated that Ukraine would fall like Afghanistan did to the Taliban. That was not considered bad judgment at the time. Putin is now stuck in a sunk-cost fallacy, he has to come out of it with at least something to show for it, because if he doesn't, that's his life and legacy over.

[nugnug]

Lukashenko knows that many people in his country don't like him and they can see through his fraudulent election results, he is a stale relic. If I was the Belarusian dictator, I would be extremely wary of committing to sending troops over the border, as it would likely result in them turning back around to overthrow me.

Putin and his cronies anticipated that Ukraine would fall like Afghanistan did to the Taliban. That was not considered bad judgment at the time. Putin is now stuck in a sunk-cost fallacy, he has to come out of it with at least something to show for it, because if he doesn't, that's his life and legacy over.

hes the dictater who wins elections

and doesnt lockdown his country and doesnt give himself emergency powers whenhe could easly have done so

[gringo]

With regards to this war Russia v Ukraine (backed by NATO), it has seemed Russia has taken a real beating and been found wanting in so many areas. However, there has also been some quite severe censorship and one sided news reporting. Taking all things in to account, I'm wondering whether the censorship was necessary. If Russia was on the front foot it would be evident on the battlefield. It doesn't seem to be. It seems to taking one step forward and two steps back. If I was a Belarusian dictator, I would be extremely wary of committing to anything involving crossing the border, as it would likely result in mass slaughter for those crossing over. I think if Russia had any real good news about the war going their way, it would find itself in the news somehow, despite all the one sided reporting.

    Your post demonstrates the need of the censorship, Roch. You wonder at the need of censorship because "it would be evident on the battlefield, if Russia were on the front foot". You only believe they aren't on the front foot because of the "one sided news reporting" and censorship. Your post actually demonstrates just how much the censorship is required and how well it works.
      People such as Scott Ritter, Colonel Douglas MacGregor (hardly Russian disinformation) are brutally honest about the real state of affairs. The real Ukrainian losses. Neither of these could be regarded as Russian disinformation. Aside from these there are many informed and sane voices in the West but censorship means they will never be interviewed or their views sought by a corrupted and censored media. Hence the lack of any evidence "on the battlefield" of Russian success. To discern you have to seek out honest and unbiased reporting in times of censorship and propaganda yourself. The censors and the censored aren't going to show you it.

[Roch]

    Your post demonstrates the need of the censorship, Roch. You wonder at the need of censorship because "it would be evident on the battlefield, if Russia were on the front foot". You only believe they aren't on the front foot because of the "one sided news reporting" and censorship. Your post actually demonstrates just how much the censorship is required and how well it works.
      People such as Scott Ritter, Colonel Douglas MacGregor (hardly Russian disinformation) are brutally honest about the real state of affairs. The real Ukrainian losses. Neither of these could be regarded as Russian disinformation. Aside from these there are many informed and sane voices in the West but censorship means they will never be interviewed or their views sought by a corrupted and censored media. Hence the lack of any evidence "on the battlefield" of Russian success. To discern you have to seek out honest and unbiased reporting in times of censorship and propaganda yourself. The censors and the censored aren't going to show you it.

I did wonder along these lines Gringo. But I would be surprised if Russia actually has been successful to anywhere near the extent they could have been. The conscripts stories seem to have more than a ring of truth. It just looks like organised chaos born out of unexpected failure.

[gringo]

With regards to this war Russia v Ukraine (backed by NATO), it has seemed Russia has taken a real beating and been found wanting in so many areas. However, there has also been some quite severe censorship and one sided news reporting. Taking all things in to account, I'm wondering whether the censorship was necessary. If Russia was on the front foot it would be evident on the battlefield. It doesn't seem to be. It seems to taking one step forward and two steps back. If I was a Belarusian dictator, I would be extremely wary of committing to anything involving crossing the border, as it would likely result in mass slaughter for those crossing over. I think if Russia had any real good news about the war going their way, it would find itself in the news somehow, despite all the one sided reporting.

   Here is a snippet of some less biased reporting for you, Roch;

Ukraine SitRep - Media Ignorance, Counter-Artillery War, Three Lost Armies
Yves Smith asks:

What if Russia Won the Ukraine War but the Western Press Didn’t Notice?

She points to several headlines which, despite decisive Russian victories like its taking of Soledar, present the Ukraine as winning the war:

Nevertheless, Soledar has fallen and the loss of Bakhmut looks baked in, absent horrific Russian errors. The so-called Zelensky line is breaking even before Russia has put its recently-mobilized forces to work in a serious way. Regular commentators are waiting for the Russian hammer to fall, although Russia may simply grind more forcefully by pressing harder at more points along the very long line of contact. Remember one concern on the Russian side is avoiding “winning” in a way that leads to NATO panic and desperate action ... not that the Collective West’s fragile emotional state can be readily managed.
With that context, you’d expect some members of the press to have worked out that things are not going very well for Ukraine and the classic cowboy movie rescue of the cavalry riding over the hill (here in the form of tanks and artillery) will be too little, too late.

Instead, the media seems to be trying to integrate snippets of facts on the ground with the heroic tale of inevitable Ukraine victory.

That is certainly correct for the wide majority of the stories, which claim that Soledar and Bahkmut, are irrelevant towns, but some pieces are creeping up that differ. A few days ago the Washington Post headlined:

Bloody Bakhmut siege poses risks for Ukraine

Ukraine faces difficult choices about how much deeper its military should get drawn into a protracted fight over the besieged city of Bakhmut, as Kyiv prepares for a new counteroffensive elsewhere on the front that requires conserving weapons, ammunition and experienced fighters.
Russia has escalated its assault in the area in recent days, unleashing savage fighting that has underscored the high cost of the battle. Russian mercenaries and released convicts from the Wagner group pushed into the neighboring salt-mining town of Soledar and inched closer to Bakhmut, the capture of which has eluded them for months despite an advantage in firepower and the willingness to sacrifice troops.

The piece quotes several Ukrainian soldiers which speak of huge losses on their side. But the U.S. is still egging them on:

The senior U.S. official cautioned against completely dismissing Bakhmut or neighboring Soledar as nonstrategic places that Kyiv can simply relinquish, noting that the salt and gypsum mines give the area economic significance. Theoretically, the Russians could use the deep salt mines and tunnels to protect equipment and ammunition from Ukrainian missile strikes. Moscow has also endowed the city with import.
“To some degree, Bakhmut matters to [Ukraine] because it matters so much to the Russians,” the senior U.S. official said, noting that control of Bakhmut is not going to have a huge impact on the conflict or imperil Ukraine’s defensive or offensive options in the country’s eastern Donbas region.

The official added, “Bakhmut is not going to change the war.”

I believe the senior U.S. official to be very wrong. Soledar and Bakhmut are bleeding the Ukrainian army dry. That is of relevance. Look at the insane number of Ukrainian units deployed on that only 50 kilometer (30mi) long sector of the front.

      That is the opening to the article-full piece in the link below;

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/01/ukraine-sitrep-media-ignorance-counter-artillery-war-three-lost-armies-.html#comments

     If you are seeking the truth of this conflict-it is not to be found in western media or on heavily censored social media. You are being shown irrelevant minutae without being given a wider picture.
     The main war that is raging is the economic war between the emerging BRICS+, SCO etc aligned multipolar world and the colonialist uni-power West. This is not reported at all in the western media. The dollar is being dropped. The economic collapse of the western financial ponzi fraud is inevitable.
     Gradually then suddenly. Ernest Hemingway's observation on how bankruptcy happens applies to the fraudulent financial system of the west.
     The military confrontation in the Ukraine is a last throw of the dice to collapse Russia and gain control of its resources. NATO have provoked the "unprovoked" Russian "aggression" for years. They have found out that Russia are too strong.
    The censorship is definitely required, Roch. Without it our leaders would already be ousted, EU and NATO broken up and our institutions and "free media" would not be servants to capital and corporate interests waging wars of piracy to steal others resources.

     

[Roch]

   Here is a snippet of some less biased reporting for you, Roch;

Ukraine SitRep - Media Ignorance, Counter-Artillery War, Three Lost Armies
Yves Smith asks:

What if Russia Won the Ukraine War but the Western Press Didn’t Notice?

She points to several headlines which, despite decisive Russian victories like its taking of Soledar, present the Ukraine as winning the war:

Nevertheless, Soledar has fallen and the loss of Bakhmut looks baked in, absent horrific Russian errors. The so-called Zelensky line is breaking even before Russia has put its recently-mobilized forces to work in a serious way. Regular commentators are waiting for the Russian hammer to fall, although Russia may simply grind more forcefully by pressing harder at more points along the very long line of contact. Remember one concern on the Russian side is avoiding “winning” in a way that leads to NATO panic and desperate action ... not that the Collective West’s fragile emotional state can be readily managed.
With that context, you’d expect some members of the press to have worked out that things are not going very well for Ukraine and the classic cowboy movie rescue of the cavalry riding over the hill (here in the form of tanks and artillery) will be too little, too late.

Instead, the media seems to be trying to integrate snippets of facts on the ground with the heroic tale of inevitable Ukraine victory.

That is certainly correct for the wide majority of the stories, which claim that Soledar and Bahkmut, are irrelevant towns, but some pieces are creeping up that differ. A few days ago the Washington Post headlined:

Bloody Bakhmut siege poses risks for Ukraine

Ukraine faces difficult choices about how much deeper its military should get drawn into a protracted fight over the besieged city of Bakhmut, as Kyiv prepares for a new counteroffensive elsewhere on the front that requires conserving weapons, ammunition and experienced fighters.
Russia has escalated its assault in the area in recent days, unleashing savage fighting that has underscored the high cost of the battle. Russian mercenaries and released convicts from the Wagner group pushed into the neighboring salt-mining town of Soledar and inched closer to Bakhmut, the capture of which has eluded them for months despite an advantage in firepower and the willingness to sacrifice troops.

The piece quotes several Ukrainian soldiers which speak of huge losses on their side. But the U.S. is still egging them on:

The senior U.S. official cautioned against completely dismissing Bakhmut or neighboring Soledar as nonstrategic places that Kyiv can simply relinquish, noting that the salt and gypsum mines give the area economic significance. Theoretically, the Russians could use the deep salt mines and tunnels to protect equipment and ammunition from Ukrainian missile strikes. Moscow has also endowed the city with import.
“To some degree, Bakhmut matters to [Ukraine] because it matters so much to the Russians,” the senior U.S. official said, noting that control of Bakhmut is not going to have a huge impact on the conflict or imperil Ukraine’s defensive or offensive options in the country’s eastern Donbas region.

The official added, “Bakhmut is not going to change the war.”

I believe the senior U.S. official to be very wrong. Soledar and Bakhmut are bleeding the Ukrainian army dry. That is of relevance. Look at the insane number of Ukrainian units deployed on that only 50 kilometer (30mi) long sector of the front.

      That is the opening to the article-full piece in the link below;

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/01/ukraine-sitrep-media-ignorance-counter-artillery-war-three-lost-armies-.html#comments

     If you are seeking the truth of this conflict-it is not to be found in western media or on heavily censored social media. You are being shown irrelevant minutae without being given a wider picture.
     The main war that is raging is the economic war between the emerging BRICS+, SCO etc aligned multipolar world and the colonialist uni-power West. This is not reported at all in the western media. The dollar is being dropped. The economic collapse of the western financial ponzi fraud is inevitable.
     Gradually then suddenly. Ernest Hemingway's observation on how bankruptcy happens applies to the fraudulent financial system of the west.
     The military confrontation in the Ukraine is a last throw of the dice to collapse Russia and gain control of its resources. NATO have provoked the "unprovoked" Russian "aggression" for years. They have found out that Russia are too strong.
    The censorship is definitely required, Roch. Without it our leaders would already be ousted, EU and NATO broken up and our institutions and "free media" would not be servants to capital and corporate interests waging wars of piracy to steal others resources.

   

An interesting read, thank you Gringo.

[gringo]

I did wonder along these lines Gringo. But I would be surprised if Russia actually has been successful to anywhere near the extent they could have been. The conscripts stories seem to have more than a ring of truth. It just looks like organised chaos born out of unexpected failure.

    All of the stories are carefully curated to support the narrative that is being pushed. The hundreds of stories that contradict the narrative don't get aired. It is that simple, Roch. Hence the censorship.

     Colonel Douglas Macgregor from a few days ago below;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izXkErjNybw&ab_channel=FINANCEMAIL

    Scott Ritter interviews are excellent-brutally honest and informed. Below is one for you;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbD3hZ23XVY&ab_channel=THEDIVEINWITHRATTAN

     BBC nor any western media would interview either of the above despite their obvious expertise and knowledge. Curated media is just propaganda-by definition.