Author Topic: Russia - worrying?  (Read 363859 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1665 on: May 03, 2022, 08:32:PM »
    There is an abundance of evidence of ethnic Russians being massacred in Donetsk and Luhansk, Steve. 14,000+ civilian deaths from shelling, all documented and evidence collected for the 8 years prior to the Russian action. If you had been paying attention all along, you would know this. It didn't start in February.
     R2P has clearly been abused to regime change "unfriendly governments" by NATO. No fly zones abused for political purposes. The shelling and war on Ukrainians in Donetsk by their own army has been documented over the last 8 years and is an undeniable fact. It has been reported on throughout this time in western media. It is also becoming clearer by the day that the Russian move merely pre-empted the planned Ukraine/NATO action.
    Russia certainly have a stronger case for R2P in Donetsk than NATO had in Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria and anywhere else that they have abused it.
   
   
But you're forgetting that Ukraine is sovereign territory and there was a civil war. My suspicion is that Russia took Crimea as a trophy for the naval base, whose lease was about to run out. I don't attempt to justify all the NATO interventions you describe except to say following the Srebrenica massacre in July 1995 there was genuine concern that no repetition should be countenanced in that area of Europe.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1666 on: May 03, 2022, 09:05:PM »
     They seek him here,
     They seek him there,
     They seek the General Cadieu,
     Is he in heaven,
     Or Azovstahl,
     That damned elusive General.

    The "missing" Canadian General rumoured to be captured by Russia in Mariupol. The reporting around this would suggest that the rumours have some basis. As well as multiple reports on foreign media and telegram channels, Canadian media have been reporting snippets here and there which appear to be attempts to get ahead of the unfolding narrative.
     Canadian media are reporting that Cadieu resigned his commission on April 5 after more than 30 years service. We are to believe that he gave up his approx. $270,000 salary after 30+ years service to act as a mercenary/volunteer in Ukraine??!!
     The writer goes out of their way to point out that Cadieu's actions are his "personal choice" and obviously nothing to do with the Canadian military!!
     Here is the full piece;
   https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/military-officer-retires-heads-to-ukraine-amid-sex-misconduct-investigation-1.5871017
     
     The resignation story is clearly bollocks and as stated, an attempt to get ahead of the narrative.

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1667 on: May 03, 2022, 09:16:PM »
    There is an abundance of evidence of ethnic Russians being massacred in Donetsk and Luhansk, Steve.
   

Strange how they failed to show up at court to prove it.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-russia-face-off-world-court-over-genocide-claim-2022-03-06/

"The fact that Russia's seats are empty speaks loudly. They are not here in this court of law: they are on a battlefield waging an aggressive war against my country,"

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1668 on: May 03, 2022, 09:52:PM »
But you're forgetting that Ukraine is sovereign territory and there was a civil war. My suspicion is that Russia took Crimea as a trophy for the naval base, whose lease was about to run out. I don't attempt to justify all the NATO interventions you describe except to say following the Srebrenica massacre in July 1995 there was genuine concern that no repetition should be countenanced in that area of Europe.
   I haven't forgotten anything, Steve. Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria were all also sovereign territories. Sovereignty has nothing to do with R2P. If sovereignty prevented R2P then all R2P has been illegal according to this metric. Sovereignty is not a defence for massacres or crimes against humanity.
    Weeks prior to the invasion, the Russians handed their evidence alleging genocide to the UN. This was largely unreported in the West because the implications were understood. By alleging genocide and providing evidence, this was setting the legal groundwork for the R2P intervention. Dotting the i's and crossing the t's, as it were, with properly documented evidence handed to the UN.
    It is worth comparing with the Western/NATO approach to R2P. They gather a bunch of propaganda and lies and hand it to the pliant media channels who then uncritically repeat it and tell us that we (NATO/UK/US) must do something. In Western NATO parlance, this is legal justification for bombing the shit out of some countries civilians and armed forces whilst arming and training various mercs, nazis and jihadists, or as we call them, "moderate rebels" to overthrow a sovereign government.
    To be fair, NATO did at one time attempt to go through recognised legal channels. Although after the testimony of the Kuwaiti nurse before the UN, vis a vis the throwing babies from incubators by Iraqi troops lie. She turned out to be the Ambassador's daughter, wasn't a nurse, hadn't been in the hospital and the whole tale was invented to justify (you guessed it) a NATO war on Iraq. And who can forget Colin Powell disgracing himself with a vial of Anthrax, again before the UN, to justify yet another Iraqi invasion. The anthrax turned out to have come from American Biolab Fort Detrick.
    After these debacles NATO/US/UK don't concern themselves with presenting evidence through the UN anymore and instead go the "court of public opinion" but only after massively propagandising and hiding relevant aspects from the "court of public opinion".
    Your comments on Crimea are the opposite of truth.
    Crimea is Russian and the Crimeans overwhelmingly want to remain part of Russia. A large number of Ukrainian troops stationed in Crimea defected to the Russians in 2014. There was no fight because Russians were welcomed there. The Ukrainian coup government was not. It is that simple.
     The Russians made sure that NATO did not get their hands on Sevastopol, which was one of the main intentions behind the 2014 Maidan coup. Sevastopol is Russia's only warm water port and of huge strategic significance.
     Remember that history rhymes. Crimea is an old tune. It comes up time and again because of it's significance to Russia. Russia is the defender, not the aggressor. These are self evident truths that western selective reading of history and events wilfully ignores.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1669 on: May 03, 2022, 10:09:PM »
      The excellent Andrei Martyanov today with this piece, well worth reading. Copied and pasted the whole article below. Brilliant!
     The Larry Johnson piece that Martyanov quotes from and recommends reading in full is worth the recommendation also.

 1. Larry Johnson posted yesterday a very good piece from his friend on Maskirovka and deception in Operation Z.


Deception. The Soviets were probably the greatest masters of battlefield deception that there has ever been. I recommend David Glantz’s book for those who want to make a real study of it and for those who want a shorter introduction I suggest this essay (“one is awed by the magician’s illusions of objects disappearing and appearing”). Some in the West may remember D-Day’s ghost army but, as far as I know, this was the only time the Western Allies did deception on this scale. As the references above make clear, the Soviets did deception operations on this scale all the time – dummy vehicles, faked tank tracks, silent movement, lights moving at night, loudspeakers making engine noises, feint attacks, radio traffic, carefully encouraging the enemy to see what he wanted to see; as House says, they almost always fooled the Germans. And not just then – the 1939 attack at Khalkhin Gol stunned the Japanese – “we had no prior clue“. One may be certain that the Russian Army has inherited this talent.
Read the whole thing at Larry's blog--it is excellent. 

2. The Hill, ever neocon and exceptionalist rag, suddenly was afflicted by a bout of clarity and in an opinion piece concluded:


The unprecedented U.S.-led Western sanctions against Russia have been likened to economic weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) that would ultimately destroy the Russian economy. In reality, the sanctions are like a double-edged sword — they inflict pain on Russia but also impose costs on their imposers. The West, in fact, is caught in a trap: The sanctions and the deepening conflict, by helping to raise global commodity and energy prices, translate into higher revenues for Moscow in spite of a significant decrease in its exports. And the higher international prices, by fueling inflation, mean political trouble at home for those behind the sanctions.
No shit, geniuses.  How about learning what actual economy is and how it operates. The author also makes another discovery.


Look at another paradox: Despite Russia being cut off from the world’s financial arteries, the Russian ruble has dramatically recovered through state intervention. But, as if to signal that Japan is paying a price for following the U.S. lead on Russia, the Japanese yen (the world’s third-most-traded currency) has sunk to a 20-year low against the U.S. dollar, ranking this year as the worst performing of the 41 currencies tracked — worse than the ruble.
In general, Russophobia is being made by Russia a very expensive luxury. But the author DOES give a sensible explanation on why Operation Z proceeds the way it proceeds.


Biden’s belief that “this war could continue for a long time” is backed by Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Mark Milley, who testified that he expects it to last years. But as the conflict drags on and the boomerang effects of the sanctions deepen the cost-of-living crisis, the divides in the Western camp will widen and “Ukraine fatigue” will set in. The West will be left with little choice but to negotiate with Putin to end the conflict, as predicted by Javier Solana, a former NATO chief who also served as Spain’s foreign minister. Such negotiations will be vital to halt Ukraine’s destruction and avert Europe from paying the main price.
You see, Russia CAN afford to be methodical and deliberate in her demilitarization of Ukraine, the West cannot--it simply doesn't have time. And that is the difference, a strategic one, between real economy and a virtual one. Nobody cares what Biden believes or what kind of, traditionally wrong, forecasts all those D.C. think-tanks produced, the reality "on the ground" has its own mind and those who do not understand it are bound to fail. Of course news like this:

China Calls Out U.S. Dollar Dominance As It Buys Russian Coal With Yuan
also send shivers down the spines of many in D.C. because all that is just the unfolding spectacle of the destruction of the US Dollar dominance. You see, one cannot accuse me of Russian rah-rah, all what I posted here is taken from the US sources. Repeat after me--reality is a bitch.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2022, 10:12:PM by gringo »

Offline Roch

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1670 on: May 03, 2022, 11:51:PM »

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1671 on: May 04, 2022, 01:07:AM »
I wonder how many people are aware of this incident..

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/ukrainian-authorities-block-memorial-odessa-massacre
   In the western Anglosphere, not as many as ought to, Roch. It was reported at the time extensively elsewhere and is not forgotten. This is who the Russians are dealing with. There is a lot of payback coming for the Odessa atrocity that you linked plus many others.

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1672 on: May 04, 2022, 12:55:PM »

Offline Roch

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1673 on: May 04, 2022, 01:49:PM »
What clowns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4eJvwtQJu4

I would prefer it if Liz Truss kept her mouth shut. Every time she opens it, she seems to make things worse.

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1674 on: May 04, 2022, 01:57:PM »
And who can forget Colin Powell disgracing himself with a vial of Anthrax, again before the UN, to justify yet another Iraqi invasion. The anthrax turned out to have come from American Biolab Fort Detrick.

It been publicly known since 1994 that the University of Baghdad's department of microbiology obtained Anthrax spores from Fort Detrick and US academia. So, don't try and spin that one into a conspiracy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1994/02/10/rockville-firm-shipped-germ-agents-to-iraq-riegle-says/ad42c892-7d7a-4531-b604-ee64b4eb7147/

https://web.archive.org/web/20160424022339/http://www.markswatson.com/iraqbio.html
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 02:00:PM by David1819 »

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1675 on: May 04, 2022, 02:01:PM »
I would prefer it if Liz Truss kept her mouth shut. Every time she opens it, she seems to make things worse.

Evil prevails when the good do nothing.

Offline Roch

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1676 on: May 04, 2022, 02:22:PM »
Evil prevails when the good do nothing.

She's been a bit gaffe prone in her latest role.

Truss is probably somebody who would get the earliest possible warning and would likely be in a bunker. I don't fancy trying to navigate a mutoid wasteland above ground due to her inflammatory rhetoric.

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1677 on: May 04, 2022, 02:40:PM »
She's been a bit gaffe prone in her latest role.

Truss is probably somebody who would get the earliest possible warning and would likely be in a bunker. I don't fancy trying to navigate a mutoid wasteland above ground due to her inflammatory rhetoric.

If Putin gives the order to strike first, its unlikely such an order would be carried out. Gerasimov would probably put a bullet in his dome.

But, if a strike is launched you are probably safe.

https://youtu.be/3LPdmxnBkIU?t=20
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 02:42:PM by David1819 »

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1678 on: May 04, 2022, 06:06:PM »
   David in response to the comment about Colin Powell disgracing himself at the UN with a vial of white powder and claiming that Anthrax mailed to high profile figures was from Iraq. It was in fact traced to Fort Detrick, a US biolab.
It been publicly known since 1994 that the University of Baghdad's department of microbiology obtained Anthrax spores from Fort Detrick and US academia. So, don't try and spin that one into a conspiracy.

From the Guardian in 2011 but you can find this anywhere;

The person the FBI finally named as responsible for the anthrax letters had no link to Iraq. He was Bruce Ivins, a disgruntled scientist working at the Army's biodefence labs at Fort Detrick, Maryland. He committed suicide in 2008 before he could be brought to trial.

   The only person turning it into a conspiracy is David, still believing the long discredited and admitted lie. Below is the link to the full article;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/15/anthrax-iraq

   Your drive by comments are dismal and show how far out of your depth you are.

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1679 on: May 04, 2022, 06:23:PM »
   David in response to the comment about Colin Powell disgracing himself at the UN with a vial of white powder and claiming that Anthrax mailed to high profile figures was from Iraq. It was in fact traced to Fort Detrick, a US biolab.
It been publicly known since 1994 that the University of Baghdad's department of microbiology obtained Anthrax spores from Fort Detrick and US academia. So, don't try and spin that one into a conspiracy.

From the Guardian in 2011 but you can find this anywhere;

The person the FBI finally named as responsible for the anthrax letters had no link to Iraq. He was Bruce Ivins, a disgruntled scientist working at the Army's biodefence labs at Fort Detrick, Maryland. He committed suicide in 2008 before he could be brought to trial.

   The only person turning it into a conspiracy is David, still believing the long discredited and admitted lie. Below is the link to the full article;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/15/anthrax-iraq

   Your drive by comments are dismal and show how far out of your depth you are.

Who said anything about the 2001 anthrax attacks? They never blamed Iraq for it. And suspected it was from a domestic source as early as December 2001.

Bruce Ivins left a radical Islamist letter as a red herring to mislead any subsequent investigation. It would have been the perfect opportunity to frame Iraq yet they followed the evidence and found the perpetrator. Which is behaviour very contrary to your conspiratorial view of the US government.

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/12/22/us/nation-challenged-anthrax-trail-us-inquiry-tried-but-failed-link-iraq-anthrax.html
« Last Edit: May 04, 2022, 06:25:PM by David1819 »