Russia - worrying?

[Roch]

Why are the likes of Macron, Truss, Stoltenberg etc. staying quiet on what was discussed prior to the invasion? It should be in our press and media, regarding exactly what was discussed, what was requested by the Russian leadership and what the response was to the Russian leadership. It's a failure of diplomacy in some way or form.

[killingeve]

Excellent docu:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09vb7m3/putin-the-new-tsar

[killingeve]

Why are the likes of Macron, Truss, Stoltenberg etc. staying quiet on what was discussed prior to the invasion? It should be in our press and media, regarding exactly what was discussed, what was requested by the Russian leadership and what the response was to the Russian leadership. It's a failure of diplomacy in some way or form.

I thought the main condition was for Ukraine not to join NATO?  Jack Straw's comments are interesting in this doc towards the end:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09vb7m3/putin-the-new-tsar

[nugnug]

not a ig fanof hri hege ut he has a good point here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR_UeNZ_8zY

[Roch]

This short vid is worth a listen..

https://fb.watch/bwkqqapdA0/

[Roch]

Excellent docu:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b09vb7m3/putin-the-new-tsar

Think I saw some of this at the time.

[killingeve]

I've absolutely no idea about the rights or wrongs of the Russian oligarchs' wealth but it seems odd to my mind that the West can suddenly say 'ok we're seizing all your assets'?  Ambramovich was being courted by UK in 2003:

https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/roman-personality-of-the-year-7236295.html (Paper now owned by a Russian: Lord Lebedev).

Money laundering was really tightened up across EU post 9/11.  I think 'unexplained wealth orders' came along later and I'm not sure if they can be applied retrospectively?  The time to ask questions was  surely when they, or companies linked to them, purchased property, planes, yachts, cars etc?

[killingeve]

I've absolutely no idea about the rights or wrongs of the Russian oligarchs' wealth but it seems odd to my mind that the West can suddenly say 'ok we're seizing all your assets'?  Ambramovich was being courted by UK in 2003:

https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/roman-personality-of-the-year-7236295.html (Paper now owned by a Russian: Lord Lebedev).

Money laundering was really tightened up across EU post 9/11.  I think 'unexplained wealth orders' came along later and I'm not sure if they can be applied retrospectively?  The time to ask questions was  surely when they, or companies linked to them, purchased property, planes, yachts, cars etc?

When the UK sold off state owned industries eg BT, BG etc private citizens were given the opportunity of buying shares and many were purchased by institutional investors to hold in pension funds. How come when Russia off loaded state owned industries they ended up in the hands of a few ie Russian oligarchs? 

[killingeve]

France has just seized the following:

https://news.sky.com/story/putin-ally-and-boss-of-russian-oil-giant-has-120m-yacht-seized-in-france-12556352

Did the West have agreements with the RO's they would turn a blind eye to how they acquired their wealth on the basis they kept Putin in check? 

[Roch]

Cambridge, do you have any opinions on this?..

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10740.msg516429.html#msg516429

(Just trying to stimulate debate).

[Bubo bubo]

France has just seized the following:

https://news.sky.com/story/putin-ally-and-boss-of-russian-oil-giant-has-120m-yacht-seized-in-france-12556352

Did the West have agreements with the RO's they would turn a blind eye to how they acquired their wealth on the basis they kept Putin in check?

The idea that the RO keep Putin in check is false. The reverse is true. He acts like a medieval king and they are the Barons. If he needs money to prop up the state or line his own pockets he expects them to put their hands in their pockets. If they do not dance to his tune he imprisons them under spurious corruption charges or bumps them off.
Read this article by Angus Roxborough ex BBC Russia correspondent.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/24/ukraine-russia-vladimir-putin-kremlin

[nugnug]

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2022/03/the-universal-boosting-of-putin/

[killingeve]

The idea that the RO keep Putin in check is false. The reverse is true. He acts like a medieval king and they are the Barons. If he needs money to prop up the state or line his own pockets he expects them to put their hands in their pockets. If they do not dance to his tune he imprisons them under spurious corruption charges or bumps them off.
Read this article by Angus Roxborough ex BBC Russia correspondent.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/24/ukraine-russia-vladimir-putin-kremlin

No mention of RO's in the above article.

If the West didn't think the RO's could keep a handle on Putin then why have they been courted and allowed to invest and spend their 'ill-gotten' gains in the West?  Why is the West going after them now? 

[killingeve]

Cambridge, do you have any opinions on this?..

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10740.msg516429.html#msg516429

(Just trying to stimulate debate).

Off-topic!  I'll respond later on the other thread.

[killingeve]

David, I think you're better than this post. It's not very inclusive. I would hate for anyone to judge me on my maths ability!

I suspect nutnut's spelling is rather better than he/she likes to let on:

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10220.msg504092.html#msg504092