Author Topic: Russia - worrying?  (Read 365200 times)

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Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #570 on: April 30, 2021, 12:20:PM »
   Your mocking links demonstrate your inability to engage on anything substantial.

Thats rich coming from someone who resorts to insults then dissappears from the forum when his conspiracy theories get debunked.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #571 on: April 30, 2021, 03:22:PM »
Thats rich coming from someone who resorts to insults then dissappears from the forum when his conspiracy theories get debunked.
   So what is this debunked conspiracy theory which caused my disappearance?

Offline Roch

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #572 on: April 30, 2021, 03:39:PM »
This might also be worth checking out Roch  :))

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_sightings_in_Russia

Thank you David. That is extremely helpful.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #573 on: April 30, 2021, 03:43:PM »
Thats rich coming from someone who resorts to insults then dissappears from the forum when his conspiracy theories get debunked.
   Another “Arria formula” meeting concerning OPCW’s doctored investigation of alleged “chemical attacks” in Douma has been held at the UN on April 16, 2021. Aaron Maté was present again and has delivered what is, in my opinion, the best overview of the story so far?—detailed, yet succinct, eloquent and accessible.

The 27-minute video consists of three parts:

1. An introduction for those unfamiliar with the story, which is so good that I’ve decided to type it out here (0:04–5:35):

I’m very honored to be here once again. I really appreciate the opportunity.
So it has been three years since the alleged chemical attack in Douma and nearly two years since the cover-up of the OPCW investigation into Douma was exposed, but yet, all this time later, nothing has been done to address the serious flaws in this investigation. So what I want to do today is go through some of the few arguments that have been made by the OPCW and other state parties in trying to justify why they refused to meet with the inspectors—the original inspectors who challenged the cover-up of their probe—and why they refuse to investigate any of the scientific fraud that was alleged.

So, again, what are the basic details of this incident?

April 7, 2018, something horrible happens in Douma, dead bodies are filmed inside of a building, the U.S., Britain and France a few days later bomb Syria, accusing it of committing a chemical attack in Douma. Shortly after that, the OPCW gets a team on the ground—for the first time actually having a fact-finding mission reaching the site of an alleged chemical attack in Syria. They investigate, about a year later, in March 2019, a final report comes out, and that report claims that there are reasonable grounds to believe that a chlorine attack occurred in Douma, and the inference of the report is that Syria was guilty, so it aligns with the narrative put out by the countries that bombed Syria.

But then we get a pretty extraordinary series of leaks that exposes a major deception, and these leaks show that the actual inspectors who went to Douma did not reach the conclusion that was put out by the OPCW, and they actually found that there was no evidence of a chemical attack in Douma. They did not speculate as to what actually happened, but what they said is that there was no evidence of a chemical attack.

We saw that because one of the leaks we got was the original report from the Douma team—they wrote a report that was never released to the public until it was leaked. That report was peer-reviewed by the team, it was set for publication, but then something very strange happened: the author of that original report, the chief author, who’s been identified by the OPCW as inspector B, he discovered that someone above him had actually been trying to rush out a bogus report, taking the original report, removing all the key scientific findings, and adding unsupported conclusions including speculating that chlorine gas was likely used and falsely claiming that there were high concentrations of that chemical. So inspector B thwarted the publication of this bogus report, because he sent an email of protest that was sent out to all the Douma team members and some officials. That led to the publication of the interim report in early July 2018. The interim report removed the bogus claims of the doctored bogus report, but it also removed some of the key claims of the original report—so, sort of a compromise.

And around that time something else very curious happened: a U.S. delegation visited the Douma team and tried to lobby them into reaching the conclusion that there was a chlorine attack. Now, it’s very common, as we know, for state parties to share information, share views, share intelligence, but a one-on-one briefing in which the inspectors, who are supposed to be protected, come face-to-face with the U.S. delegation is very unusual. The first Director-General of the OPCW José Bustani told me at The Grayzone that he would never have allowed such a meeting to take place.

Something else happens around then, too. The original team, including inspector B, who was the chief author of the original report, they are all sidelined, they’re taken off the Douma investigation, and they're replaced by a so-called “Core team”, and this is comprised mostly of people who never set foot in Syria, and that is the team that produced the final report.

So then we get these leaks showing all this happening, and then what happens, well, the OPCW refuses to meet with the inspectors, they refuse to investigate the doctoring of the original report. When José Bustani, the first Director-General of the OPCW, tries to speak at the UN Security Council when he was invited, certain member states block him from speaking. And what’s interesting about that is José Bustani, being the first Director-General, helped design the protocols used for inspection missions like Douma, he also worked with the key dissenting inspectors—because these two inspectors, they’re so experienced at the OPCW that their tenure coincides with the organization’s first leader—and also he has experienced what we’re talking about today, which is putting pressure on the OPCW, because when he was the chief, he was forced out by the U.S., because he was standing in the way of the Iraq War. He was trying to bring Iraq into the Chemical Weapons Convention, and he was even physically threatened, as he has talked about publicly.

And meanwhile also some deceptive claims are put out in the media about the inspectors, they are disseminated through state-funded outlets, including the BBC, funded by the U.K., and also a website called Bellingcat, which is funded by the U.S., making false claims about the inspectors and the investigation.

2. A detailed explanation, accompanied by slides, of what was altered in the final OPCW report and why OPCW’s claims of the bulk of analysis having been carried out after inspectors A and B had left the organization are a lie (5:36–21:29).

3. Closing comments and a question to U.S. and U.K. ambassadors, who for some strange reason have left the meeting by that time (21:30–27:22).

    The above copied and pasted is an insight to the ongoing cover ups and conspiracies that you are prepared to believe, David.

    Here is a link to the full video;
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge4W9e6YeXQ&ab_channel=TheGrayzone

     

Offline Roch

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #574 on: April 30, 2021, 07:46:PM »
   Another “Arria formula” meeting concerning OPCW’s doctored investigation of alleged “chemical attacks” in Douma has been held at the UN on April 16, 2021. Aaron Maté was present again and has delivered what is, in my opinion, the best overview of the story so far?—detailed, yet succinct, eloquent and accessible.

The 27-minute video consists of three parts:

1. An introduction for those unfamiliar with the story, which is so good that I’ve decided to type it out here (0:04–5:35):

I’m very honored to be here once again. I really appreciate the opportunity.
So it has been three years since the alleged chemical attack in Douma and nearly two years since the cover-up of the OPCW investigation into Douma was exposed, but yet, all this time later, nothing has been done to address the serious flaws in this investigation. So what I want to do today is go through some of the few arguments that have been made by the OPCW and other state parties in trying to justify why they refused to meet with the inspectors—the original inspectors who challenged the cover-up of their probe—and why they refuse to investigate any of the scientific fraud that was alleged.

So, again, what are the basic details of this incident?

April 7, 2018, something horrible happens in Douma, dead bodies are filmed inside of a building, the U.S., Britain and France a few days later bomb Syria, accusing it of committing a chemical attack in Douma. Shortly after that, the OPCW gets a team on the ground—for the first time actually having a fact-finding mission reaching the site of an alleged chemical attack in Syria. They investigate, about a year later, in March 2019, a final report comes out, and that report claims that there are reasonable grounds to believe that a chlorine attack occurred in Douma, and the inference of the report is that Syria was guilty, so it aligns with the narrative put out by the countries that bombed Syria.

But then we get a pretty extraordinary series of leaks that exposes a major deception, and these leaks show that the actual inspectors who went to Douma did not reach the conclusion that was put out by the OPCW, and they actually found that there was no evidence of a chemical attack in Douma. They did not speculate as to what actually happened, but what they said is that there was no evidence of a chemical attack.

We saw that because one of the leaks we got was the original report from the Douma team—they wrote a report that was never released to the public until it was leaked. That report was peer-reviewed by the team, it was set for publication, but then something very strange happened: the author of that original report, the chief author, who’s been identified by the OPCW as inspector B, he discovered that someone above him had actually been trying to rush out a bogus report, taking the original report, removing all the key scientific findings, and adding unsupported conclusions including speculating that chlorine gas was likely used and falsely claiming that there were high concentrations of that chemical. So inspector B thwarted the publication of this bogus report, because he sent an email of protest that was sent out to all the Douma team members and some officials. That led to the publication of the interim report in early July 2018. The interim report removed the bogus claims of the doctored bogus report, but it also removed some of the key claims of the original report—so, sort of a compromise.

And around that time something else very curious happened: a U.S. delegation visited the Douma team and tried to lobby them into reaching the conclusion that there was a chlorine attack. Now, it’s very common, as we know, for state parties to share information, share views, share intelligence, but a one-on-one briefing in which the inspectors, who are supposed to be protected, come face-to-face with the U.S. delegation is very unusual. The first Director-General of the OPCW José Bustani told me at The Grayzone that he would never have allowed such a meeting to take place.

Something else happens around then, too. The original team, including inspector B, who was the chief author of the original report, they are all sidelined, they’re taken off the Douma investigation, and they're replaced by a so-called “Core team”, and this is comprised mostly of people who never set foot in Syria, and that is the team that produced the final report.

So then we get these leaks showing all this happening, and then what happens, well, the OPCW refuses to meet with the inspectors, they refuse to investigate the doctoring of the original report. When José Bustani, the first Director-General of the OPCW, tries to speak at the UN Security Council when he was invited, certain member states block him from speaking. And what’s interesting about that is José Bustani, being the first Director-General, helped design the protocols used for inspection missions like Douma, he also worked with the key dissenting inspectors—because these two inspectors, they’re so experienced at the OPCW that their tenure coincides with the organization’s first leader—and also he has experienced what we’re talking about today, which is putting pressure on the OPCW, because when he was the chief, he was forced out by the U.S., because he was standing in the way of the Iraq War. He was trying to bring Iraq into the Chemical Weapons Convention, and he was even physically threatened, as he has talked about publicly.

And meanwhile also some deceptive claims are put out in the media about the inspectors, they are disseminated through state-funded outlets, including the BBC, funded by the U.K., and also a website called Bellingcat, which is funded by the U.S., making false claims about the inspectors and the investigation.

2. A detailed explanation, accompanied by slides, of what was altered in the final OPCW report and why OPCW’s claims of the bulk of analysis having been carried out after inspectors A and B had left the organization are a lie (5:36–21:29).

3. Closing comments and a question to U.S. and U.K. ambassadors, who for some strange reason have left the meeting by that time (21:30–27:22).

    The above copied and pasted is an insight to the ongoing cover ups and conspiracies that you are prepared to believe, David.

    Here is a link to the full video;
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge4W9e6YeXQ&ab_channel=TheGrayzone

   

David's mind.. "does not compute... Does not compute... System malfunction.. Alert.. alert.. System malfunction... Does not compute".  Either that, or he will find one minor error, and use that error to dismiss the whole thing.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #575 on: May 01, 2021, 01:24:AM »
David's mind.. "does not compute... Does not compute... System malfunction.. Alert.. alert.. System malfunction... Does not compute".  Either that, or he will find one minor error, and use that error to dismiss the whole thing.
   I listened to the whole video and there are no errors, minor or otherwise. David will dismiss it as conspiracy. It matters little to David that the credentials of those making these allegations are impeccable and self evidently the most qualified people to call the "official findings" into serious question. Jose Bustani, the first Director General of the OPCW and the entire original investigation team that visited the site cannot be dismissed by anyone reasonable but I expect David will. Like you say, Roch, "does not compute".
     David probably believes that the White Helmets are an entirely legitimate civil defence and rescue organisation rather than an obvious fake org. affiliated with, and no different from, Al Qaeda, Al Nusra et al and entirely funded by belligerent actors(US, UK etc.) and founded by Western intel agencies (MI6).
     The whole shit show is about to come crashing down in my view. The pushback against the criminal actions of Western govts has clearly become coordinated with China, Russia, Iran and others now acting in alliance (united they will stand but divided they would each eventually succumb).
     Syria has been a bridge too far and the Russian intervention has been a complete game changer. Russian missile and air defence technology upended the board. The whole Western strategy has backfired spectacularly and US/UK, NATO, Israel and the corrupt vassal Arab Kingdoms are in a weak and getting weaker position.
      The targets of this coalition of criminal countries have been forced together and are "winning" on nearly every front of this Undeclared War.
     The Saudis facing imminent defeat in Yemen and now offering peace terms to the Houthis. 7 years of brutal war waged with backing training and arms as well as personnel from UK and US and the Saudis begging for peace terms as they are about to lose Marib their last stronghold.
     Iran hilariously refusing to allow the US into the JCPOA talks in Vienna and setting the terms for the US to return. How the mighty have fallen. An excellent and informative article on the wider picture of these talks by Pepe Escobar featured on The Saker blog linked below if interested
        https://thesaker.is/the-vienna-shadowplay/
      Syria is lost and Western desperation will not change that. Venezuelan regime change never really got off the ground, the pathetic recognition of Guaido not taken seriously by anyone, definitely no Venezuelans. Iran openly sending tankers of oil to Venezuela contrary to the illegal and unilateral sanctions of the USA which has been shown to be a paper tiger in it's powerlessness to act. A few seizures of vessels not sent by Iran govt. but containing Iranian oil to give the pretence of power is all the US could do. Iran stated publicly to the world when they sent a fleet of tankers to Venezuela in defiance of US sanctions that, "the safety of the vessels was guaranteed by Iranian missile power". The US did nothing.
      The US/UK et al are letting their mouths write cheques that their arses can't cash. The rest of the world sees and hears this whether our media talk about it or not.
      Provocations in Ukraine have been shown to be a non starter. Russia's massive and rapid force build up demonstrating the futility of any assault to would be belligerents.
     The attempt to stir things up in the South China Sea and the Taiwan issue being a non starter for similar reasons to Ukraine. This doesn't even name all countries we are involved in attempting to "regime change" to use the euphemism for violent overthrowing of governments and sponsored invasions.
     The criminal cabals currently masquerading as Western govts are currently in check all over the board. There are no good moves left, which leaves only bad ones.
     The financial system of the West, such as it is, is dependent on looting and profiteering from other countries. We have been stopped and are in check.
     Hopefully NATO will fracture. Cracks are already appearing.
     

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #576 on: May 01, 2021, 02:34:AM »
   So what is this debunked conspiracy theory which caused my disappearance?

That Novichok nerve agents were invented by the CIA and the attacks are staged. I debunked this in posts #481, #484 and #487.

You will probably now claim all my sources are fake, but that's not going to change anything.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 02:36:AM by David1819 »

Offline David1819

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Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #578 on: May 01, 2021, 12:59:PM »
That Novichok nerve agents were invented by the CIA and the attacks are staged. I debunked this in posts #481, #484 and #487.

You will probably now claim all my sources are fake, but that's not going to change anything.
    I have never claimed that Novichok was invented by the CIA and if you have managed to come away with that interpretation then you need to brush up your reading skills. The Novichok attacks are self evidently staged by UK intel. The narrative of them all falls apart on contact with reason. Your "debunkings" are obviously nothing of the sort.
     If you are really interested in the truth of Salisbury then perhaps start here;
    https://www.theblogmire.com/category/skripal-case/
    Salisbury resident Rob Slane who already ran a blog was caught up in this local story and his blog followed the twist, turns and obvious lies in real time.
    Can you quote me claiming that Novichok was invented by the CIA?

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #579 on: May 01, 2021, 03:10:PM »

Offline Roch

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #580 on: May 01, 2021, 04:59:PM »
   I listened to the whole video and there are no errors, minor or otherwise. David will dismiss it as conspiracy. It matters little to David that the credentials of those making these allegations are impeccable and self evidently the most qualified people to call the "official findings" into serious question. Jose Bustani, the first Director General of the OPCW and the entire original investigation team that visited the site cannot be dismissed by anyone reasonable but I expect David will. Like you say, Roch, "does not compute".
     David probably believes that the White Helmets are an entirely legitimate civil defence and rescue organisation rather than an obvious fake org. affiliated with, and no different from, Al Qaeda, Al Nusra et al and entirely funded by belligerent actors(US, UK etc.) and founded by Western intel agencies (MI6).
     The whole shit show is about to come crashing down in my view. The pushback against the criminal actions of Western govts has clearly become coordinated with China, Russia, Iran and others now acting in alliance (united they will stand but divided they would each eventually succumb).
     Syria has been a bridge too far and the Russian intervention has been a complete game changer. Russian missile and air defence technology upended the board. The whole Western strategy has backfired spectacularly and US/UK, NATO, Israel and the corrupt vassal Arab Kingdoms are in a weak and getting weaker position.
      The targets of this coalition of criminal countries have been forced together and are "winning" on nearly every front of this Undeclared War.
     The Saudis facing imminent defeat in Yemen and now offering peace terms to the Houthis. 7 years of brutal war waged with backing training and arms as well as personnel from UK and US and the Saudis begging for peace terms as they are about to lose Marib their last stronghold.
     Iran hilariously refusing to allow the US into the JCPOA talks in Vienna and setting the terms for the US to return. How the mighty have fallen. An excellent and informative article on the wider picture of these talks by Pepe Escobar featured on The Saker blog linked below if interested
        https://thesaker.is/the-vienna-shadowplay/
      Syria is lost and Western desperation will not change that. Venezuelan regime change never really got off the ground, the pathetic recognition of Guaido not taken seriously by anyone, definitely no Venezuelans. Iran openly sending tankers of oil to Venezuela contrary to the illegal and unilateral sanctions of the USA which has been shown to be a paper tiger in it's powerlessness to act. A few seizures of vessels not sent by Iran govt. but containing Iranian oil to give the pretence of power is all the US could do. Iran stated publicly to the world when they sent a fleet of tankers to Venezuela in defiance of US sanctions that, "the safety of the vessels was guaranteed by Iranian missile power". The US did nothing.
      The US/UK et al are letting their mouths write cheques that their arses can't cash. The rest of the world sees and hears this whether our media talk about it or not.
      Provocations in Ukraine have been shown to be a non starter. Russia's massive and rapid force build up demonstrating the futility of any assault to would be belligerents.
     The attempt to stir things up in the South China Sea and the Taiwan issue being a non starter for similar reasons to Ukraine. This doesn't even name all countries we are involved in attempting to "regime change" to use the euphemism for violent overthrowing of governments and sponsored invasions.
     The criminal cabals currently masquerading as Western govts are currently in check all over the board. There are no good moves left, which leaves only bad ones.
     The financial system of the West, such as it is, is dependent on looting and profiteering from other countries. We have been stopped and are in check.
     Hopefully NATO will fracture. Cracks are already appearing.
     

An enjoyable read.

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #581 on: May 01, 2021, 07:28:PM »
Garry Kasparov on Vladimir Putin, his global influence, and standing up for freedom


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Og7BWUQuqw

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #582 on: May 02, 2021, 01:16:AM »
An enjoyable read.
    Thanks Roch. Did you read the Escobar piece "The Vienna Shadowplay"? A really informative analysis on the JCPOA negotiations and how the Iranian missile program and capabilities have effected the balance of power informing these negotiations. Escobar always worth reading on middle east issues particularly, very well informed and a great writer with a reputation going back decades.
    It is unfortunate that we no longer have a functioning media which allows more voices and opinions but any real debate soon makes apparent the duplicity of the Western block led by US/UK. The pretence of humanitarian concerns are soon exposed as a sham. It goes something like this:

      Country X happens to be sitting on vast resources of oil/gas/lithium etc. or is in a strategic location. The President/leader of country X is dictated the terms of a deal by a coalition of Countries Y and told that if he doesn't agree then there will be consequences. The president/leader refuses these terms and chooses to do a more beneficial, to his country, deal with country Z instead.
     Coalition of countries Y react to this snub by funding and arming terrorists to foment terror in country X. The intel agencies plant stories via their compliant pretend journalists in mainstream western media to disseminate stories about the evil leader of country X, killing in some particularly evil way(not humanitarian killing like ours). Much hand wringing and pearl clutching takes place and it is decided that "Something Must be done!!"
    Economic pressure is exerted via sanctions whilst at the same time terror groups are armed and funded to weaken Country X from within.
    If this fails to succeed then coalition of countries Y ramp up the propaganda against Country X president and intervene directly militarily but only, obviously, to save the children/women(insert minority group here) from the evil president who is gassing/slaughtering (insert unspeakably evil deed here).
     Rinse and repeat.
     If our media functioned they would have detected the above pattern but apparently, they haven't. I suspect that it relies on the old adage that, "it is amazing the things a person can fail to understand when their job depends on not understanding it"
     Western media now is just the intelligence agencies communicating directly to the public what they are supposed to believe. It demonstrates more than anything the fragility of the whole financial structure of the neoliberal western system. Freedom of speech and thought comes with too many caveats.
     The world is waking up. It can't, and won't, last.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #583 on: May 02, 2021, 10:21:AM »
i hope to hell that vlad comes and librates us soon.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #584 on: May 03, 2021, 01:14:AM »
i hope to hell that vlad comes and librates us soon.
   I think that Vlad is hoping for the Western populations to save themselves from their megalomaniac warmongering leaders without the need for war. The alternative to us not stopping their criminal rampage is way more dangerous.