Author Topic: Russia - worrying?  (Read 365295 times)

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Offline nugnug

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #541 on: April 20, 2021, 03:37:PM »

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #542 on: April 20, 2021, 04:19:PM »
"Overall, we rate OffGuardian a Strong Conspiracy and Moderate Pseudoscience website that also promotes Russian propaganda."

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/offguardian/

guest29835

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #543 on: April 20, 2021, 05:18:PM »
"Overall, we rate OffGuardian a Strong Conspiracy and Moderate Pseudoscience website that also promotes Russian propaganda."

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/offguardian/

Looks like two can play at the fact-checking game:

Quote
The website has been described as an amateur effort to rate news media sources based on factual accuracy and political bias.

...

The Columbia Journalism Review describes Media Bias/Fact Check as an amateur attempt at categorizing media bias and Van Zandt as an "armchair media analyst."  The Poynter Institute notes, "Media Bias/Fact Check is a widely cited source for news stories and even studies about misinformation, despite the fact that its method is in no way scientific."[4] Alexandra Kitty, in a 2018 book on journalism, described MBFC as an apparent "amateur/civic outfit" and wrote that its founder's only qualification was a degree in communications.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check

Quote
Media Bias Fact Check is a left-wing "fact-checker" owned by leftist Dave Van Zandt which purports to monitor bias in the media.

In terms of political perspective it is similar to Snopes - and most of Media Bias Fact Check’s assessments are wildly inaccurate.

Creation Ministries International
Its page on Creation Ministries International is almost entirely incorrect - with only three sentences being free of error - and in one instance it spells the organization’s name wrong. It frivolously and fraudulently accuses CMI of having “conspiracy” and “pseudoscience -” although nothing that CMI does would qualify for the definition of either of these words.

...

Media Bias Fact Check defends progressive echo chamber Wikipedia as “Least Biased -” and leftist RationalWiki repeatedly as “pro-science -” while simultaneously calling Conservapedia - “right-wing Christian propaganda.” It states that “Christianity is a set of dogmatic beliefs - which is opposed to Science which is a method that strictly avoids dogma” in its Christian Science article.[14]

Media Bias Fact Check considers the vile - far-left Salon to have “high” factual reporting. They have also given a group calling themselves the “Lincoln” Project a free pass.

Source: https://infogalactic.com/info/Media_Bias/Fact_Check

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #544 on: April 21, 2021, 10:51:PM »
Does the Russian government care about domestic political opinion, let alone international opinion..https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56834655

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #545 on: April 22, 2021, 06:23:PM »

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #546 on: April 22, 2021, 06:35:PM »
Does Putin ever wonder why so many former Soviet states (most of which never wanted to join the USSR in the first place) have decided to join NATO rather than CSTO?  ::)

Massing 100,000 troops on the border of a weaker neighbor is hardly going to put them off wanting to join NATO, it will only create the opposite effect.

guest29835

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #547 on: April 22, 2021, 07:11:PM »
Your "source" is infogalactic.com? LMAO

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Infogalactic

My sources are Wikipedia and Infogalactic, both of which say derogatory things about your source.

Are you saying that what they claim is wrong?  If so, what have they got wrong?

Do you also accept that, whatever the source of information, claims must be evaluated on the merits of their content?

For instance, I would say that Wikipedia leans towards the Left and follows mainstream narratives, however I accept that Wikipedia can be a reliable source.  It's a matter of evaluating claims.

By the way, your continued use of self-affirming acronyms like 'LOL' and 'LMAO' isn't convincing anybody.  It just makes you look dim and immature and suggests you are insecure.

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #548 on: April 27, 2021, 11:51:PM »
Does the Russian government care about domestic political opinion, let alone international opinion..https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56834655
  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-38136169
   Above is the BBC even admitting that Russia has nuclear shelters for the entire population of             Moscow. 
 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/moscow-ready-nuclear-war-lots-bunkers-population-26401
   There are plenty of sources other than above which also make clear that in fact the entirety of the Russian population has nuclear shelters available which are stocked with food, water, generators, tools etc.
   The Russians under Putin's rule have also developed the means militarily to make clear that a successful "first strike" is not possible against them. Hypersonic missiles and superior air defence systems guarantee this.
    I would suggest that Putin self evidently cares about domestic political opinion. I would also venture that if you were to test "domestic political opinion" in the UK that most would choose nuclear shelters stocked with necessities for survival over, say, an extra 120 nuclear warheads and Aircraft Carriers with which to threaten other sovereign states.
    It would appear on any fair and objective reading of the facts that it is the UK government that cares less for its population than the Russians under Putin. But don't allow reality to inform your knee jerk bigotry.

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #549 on: April 28, 2021, 08:14:AM »

Offline gringo

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #550 on: April 28, 2021, 10:37:AM »
Russia arrests ‘more than 1,700’ over pro-Navalny protests

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/21/hundreds-arrested-as-russia-cracks-down-on-navalny-supporters
   Why do you care about Navalny? He is a grifter and a crook, not an opposition leader. He is about as relevant to Russian politics as Tommy Robinson is to UK politics. If you really cared about opposition voices being heard then there are problems closer to home. The UK is currently home to the world's most prominent political prisoner. He is allowed no statements from his Cat A prison, unlike Navalny, nor is he charged with or guilty of anything approaching a crime in this country. The noise about Navalny is more to cover our own international shame over our treatment of Assange.
    Anyone in the UK complaining about Navalny is a brainwashed fool. Assange is in jail for telling too much truth, Navalny is in jail because he is a convicted fraudster.
     

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #551 on: April 28, 2021, 11:21:AM »
   Why do you care about Navalny? He is a grifter and a crook, not an opposition leader. He is about as relevant to Russian politics as Tommy Robinson is to UK politics. If you really cared about opposition voices being heard then there are problems closer to home. The UK is currently home to the world's most prominent political prisoner. He is allowed no statements from his Cat A prison, unlike Navalny, nor is he charged with or guilty of anything approaching a crime in this country. The noise about Navalny is more to cover our own international shame over our treatment of Assange.
    Anyone in the UK complaining about Navalny is a brainwashed fool. Assange is in jail for telling too much truth, Navalny is in jail because he is a convicted fraudster.
   

Absolutely right.


guest29835

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #552 on: April 28, 2021, 12:36:PM »
   Why do you care about Navalny? He is a grifter and a crook, not an opposition leader. He is about as relevant to Russian politics as Tommy Robinson is to UK politics. If you really cared about opposition voices being heard then there are problems closer to home. The UK is currently home to the world's most prominent political prisoner. He is allowed no statements from his Cat A prison, unlike Navalny, nor is he charged with or guilty of anything approaching a crime in this country. The noise about Navalny is more to cover our own international shame over our treatment of Assange.
    Anyone in the UK complaining about Navalny is a brainwashed fool. Assange is in jail for telling too much truth, Navalny is in jail because he is a convicted fraudster.
   

Fair point and well put, but on the other hand, hasn't the ECHR ruled twice now (in 2014 and 2019) against the Russian Federation in actions brought by Navalny to that court?  The 2014 ruling was that Navalny did not receive a fair trial in the fraud case.  The 2019 ruling was that Navalny's civil and political rights have been breached by the Russian Federation.

I think it is true that Russia lacks the judicial safeguards and checks and balances that countries such as Britain have.  I would have no hesitation in visiting Russia again and I would consider myself safe there, but I'm not sure I would be confident about engaging in any sort of political protest or criticism of government in that country.  Not that I would do so in somebody else's country anyway, but the point in principle is that Russia - for various reasons, partly to do with its own history - does not have the same depth of commitment to political liberty that exists in the West and the Western mind.

I take on board your point about Assange's plight and the unfavourable comparison, but that is a different case.  I would not extradite Julian Assange, but at the same time, I'm not sure his cause is as sympathetic as it is spun out by his supporters.  I have total sympathy for his situation and I think he should be released forthwith, but he acted recklessly and stupidly in some of his activities for Wikileaks.

Personally, I think what happens in Russia in the matter of their choice of leader and system of government is no business of Britain and I am perplexed by the fuss and think most of the criticisms of Putin are wrong or unfair or misdirected, or even when valid, seem hypocritical, and in virtually all cases inevitably demonstrate ignorance about Russia - a sovereign foreign country with its own deep and rich history and way of doing things that is in some ways quite alien to the Western mind.

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #553 on: April 28, 2021, 01:19:PM »
Fair point and well put, but on the other hand, hasn't the ECHR ruled twice now (in 2014 and 2019) against the Russian Federation in actions brought by Navalny to that court?  The 2014 ruling was that Navalny did not receive a fair trial in the fraud case.  The 2019 ruling was that Navalny's civil and political rights have been breached by the Russian Federation.

I think it is true that Russia lacks the judicial safeguards and checks and balances that countries such as Britain have.  I would have no hesitation in visiting Russia again and I would consider myself safe there, but I'm not sure I would be confident about engaging in any sort of political protest or criticism of government in that country.  Not that I would do so in somebody else's country anyway, but the point in principle is that Russia - for various reasons, partly to do with its own history - does not have the same depth of commitment to political liberty that exists in the West and the Western mind.

I take on board your point about Assange's plight and the unfavourable comparison, but that is a different case.  I would not extradite Julian Assange, but at the same time, I'm not sure his cause is as sympathetic as it is spun out by his supporters.  I have total sympathy for his situation and I think he should be released forthwith, but he acted recklessness and stupidly in some of his activities for Wikileaks.

Personally, I think what happens in Russia in the matter of their choice of leader and system of government is no business of Britain and I am perplexed by the fuss and think most of the criticisms of Putin are wrong or unfair or misdirected, or even when valid, seem hypocritical, and in virtually all cases inevitably demonstrate ignorance about Russia - a sovereign foreign country with its own deep and rich history and way of doing things that is in some ways quite alien to the Western mind.

A conviction in Russia doesn't really mean much.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-justice-system-low-acquittal-rate-uk-crown-court-a8935016.html

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #554 on: April 28, 2021, 01:28:PM »
   Why do you care about Navalny? He is a grifter and a crook, not an opposition leader. He is about as relevant to Russian politics as Tommy Robinson is to UK politics. If you really cared about opposition voices being heard then there are problems closer to home. The UK is currently home to the world's most prominent political prisoner. He is allowed no statements from his Cat A prison, unlike Navalny, nor is he charged with or guilty of anything approaching a crime in this country. The noise about Navalny is more to cover our own international shame over our treatment of Assange.
    Anyone in the UK complaining about Navalny is a brainwashed fool. Assange is in jail for telling too much truth, Navalny is in jail because he is a convicted fraudster.
   

Its the protesters I am concerned about.