Author Topic: Russia - worrying?  (Read 364347 times)

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guest29835

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1170 on: March 13, 2022, 03:04:AM »
That's not surprising is it sir? You can't escape from Russia invading a sovereign state, encouraging insurgents in Luhansk and Donestk, when it's far from clear a majority wish to join Russia or even be part of an independent republic, not forgetting the annexation of Crimea. I'm sure British exporters would favour a more cordial relationship, but there have been incidents too numerous to mention in recent years to normalize relations.

NATO has intervened in the affairs of sovereign states and the United States has invaded sovereign states - including Iraq and Afghanistan, and intervened in Libya and Syria. I assume you condemn those actions too?  Or are you arguing not for an international order but purely for the self-interest of the United States?  Perhaps you could clarify.  I believe Britain's national interests are in neutrality outside NATO and amity with Russia. 

I am not taking sides.  Neutrality means neutrality.  I have no idea if the Russians are right or the Ukrainians.  The Russians claim that ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine are persecuted by the government in Kiev.  The US-NATO-EU media hegemon claims that Putin is invading a sovereign state and screams that he is a murderous dictator, but that is not how it looks from a Russian perspective.  From the Russian point-of-view, The Ukraine is part of the Russian homeland and a keystone of its revanchist claims (in point of fact, the Ukraine rests at the core of the historic Russian nation and Kiev is Russia's ancient capital, not Moscow).  My point is that it is complex.  Roughly half of geographical Ukraine has a large ethnic Russian population, and they form a majority in some areas. 

Then there is the geopolitical aspect.  In the wake of the fall of the USSR, the Russian Federation received solemn assurances that NATO's ambitions would not extend into the East and threaten Russia strategically.  NATO - in effect, the United States - has gone back on this assurance and pursued an expansionist policy. Russia has a right to defend itself.
 
That is a summary of the other side.  I could say more.  None of it is to say Russia is right, but it is not a simple matter and I think the characterisation of Western politicians as foolish and ignorant is not far off the mark.  Britain's politicians should be pursuing the national interests of Britain, not the agenda of the Washington Beltway (and it is highly debatable whether that is even truly in the interests of the United States).

I also see you mention nothing about the outrageous interference in personal liberties and property rights of Russian nationals in the West, indeed the commercial and economic attacks on Russia itself by supposedly privately-owned businesses.

Offline David1819

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1171 on: March 13, 2022, 09:43:AM »
Russia has kidnapped mayor of Melitopol. And is shelling cities like Karkiv and Mariupol into submission. This conduct will haunt Russia for decades.

Offline Jane

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1172 on: March 13, 2022, 10:25:AM »
A Ukrainian girl, being interviewed this morning, had texted her sister in Moscow to find out why she hadn't called to see how they were coping. Her sister replied that she hadn't thought it necessary as Russian soldiers had come in peace to rid them of criminals! After telling her how it was, and having her truth denied, it seems the sisterly bond has been irretrievably broken. I'd wondered how Putin had defended invading a country which had shown no aggression. I hadn't realized that all citizens within it were criminals.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1173 on: March 13, 2022, 10:34:AM »
Exclusive: Full Interview With Russian President Vladimir Putin by Keir Simmons June 15 2021.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keir_Simmons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6pJd6O_NT0

Offline killingeve

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1174 on: March 13, 2022, 10:35:AM »
Russia has kidnapped mayor of Melitopol. And is shelling cities like Karkiv and Mariupol into submission. This conduct will haunt Russia for decades.

It might haunt you too if it escalates!

Offline killingeve

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1175 on: March 13, 2022, 10:48:AM »
Vladimir Putin interviewed by the Financial Times | FT on 5th July 2019:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbY0VpyjtuI


Offline lookout

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1176 on: March 13, 2022, 11:08:AM »
Thousands of Russians are making their way to Georgia then on to Turkey, at least 25,000 have fled so far.


Offline lookout

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1178 on: March 13, 2022, 02:20:PM »
It's damn worrying when you think that Putin's next move could be Poland !!

Offline Roch

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1179 on: March 13, 2022, 02:43:PM »
It's damn worrying when you think that Putin's next move could be Poland !!

I very much doubt he could do it. It will take years for Russia to recoup what it's lost already.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1180 on: March 13, 2022, 02:47:PM »
I very much doubt he could do it. It will take years for Russia to recoup what it's lost already.

He hasn't expended any nuclear capability yet!

Offline killingeve

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1181 on: March 13, 2022, 02:52:PM »
It's damn worrying when you think that Putin's next move could be Poland !!

Still a way to go until he catches up with the Scousers:

https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/collections/social-history/blitz

Do you remember the blitz? 


Offline killingeve

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1182 on: March 13, 2022, 02:57:PM »
Can anthropolgists say for sure we haven't progressed to this point previously?!  Was the 'origin' of the universe aka the 'big bang' in fact a nuclear explosion?!

Offline lookout

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1183 on: March 13, 2022, 03:15:PM »
I very much doubt he could do it. It will take years for Russia to recoup what it's lost already.





Russian troops are already too close for comfort to the Polish border.

Offline lookout

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Re: Russia - worrying?
« Reply #1184 on: March 13, 2022, 03:16:PM »




Russian troops are already too close for comfort to the Polish border.




Although saying that, they'll get a rude awakening from the forces who are on the border, waiting.