The main prosecution forensic case

[scipio_usmc]

But you have to take people as you find them and read between the lines on occasion. I know Scipio isn't perfect and at least acknowledges now that he has no way of knowing the order of deaths,thus contradicting himself from his original stance upon arrival on this forum,but his knowledge of firearms is extensive and his posts on backspatter illuminating.

My earlier stance is the same as now. The order of the attack was the parents in the master bedroom where June was killed, then the fight in the kitchen where Nevill was killed then either the boys killed and then Sheila or Sheila and then the boys.  I have always noted the slight variations possible including that it is possible the shot between June's eyes was delivered after the kitchen attack instead of before.  Noting the variations we can't ever be certain of is not contradicting the overall events of the parents first being shot in the bedroom then Nevill which helps refute the notion that Nevill could have made a phone call before the shooting commenced.

David says he is objective but at each turn he speculates in favor of Jeremy to try to pretend he is innocent including ignoring medical evidence of how Serious June's injuries and ignoring that Nevill's were not as serious.  He flips the script and suggests June was still running around upstairs to be killed after the kitchen incident but Nevill simply collapsed in the kitchen without even needing to be beaten. 

David does what many supporters do they try to feign objectivity while their posts demonstrate otherwise so it is best just to not even bother with such pretense.

[lookout]

Unless you were the murderer,there isn't a hope in Hell of knowing who died in what order.

[David1819]

My earlier stance is the same as now. The order of the attack was the parents in the master bedroom where June was killed, then the fight in the kitchen where Nevill was killed then either the boys killed and then Sheila or Sheila and then the boys.  I have always noted the slight variations possible including that it is possible the shot between June's eyes was delivered after the kitchen attack instead of before.  Noting the variations we can't ever be certain of is not contradicting the overall events of the parents first being shot in the bedroom then Nevill which helps refute the notion that Nevill could have made a phone call before the shooting commenced.

David says he is objective but at each turn he speculates in favor of Jeremy to try to pretend he is innocent including ignoring medical evidence of how Serious June's injuries and ignoring that Nevill's were not as serious.  He flips the script and suggests June was still running around upstairs to be killed after the kitchen incident but Nevill simply collapsed in the kitchen without even needing to be beaten. 

David does what many supporters do they try to feign objectivity while their posts demonstrate otherwise so it is best just to not even bother with such pretense.

Oh hail skippy I bow my head to thee 

Again and as expected lies and distortion from you in order give the impression your always correct.
I know where I stand on this. Your comments are not reflective of my views and you know it 

[Jan]

"David says he is objective but at each turn he speculates in favor of Jeremy to try to pretend he is innocent including ignoring medical evidence of how Serious June's injuries and ignoring that Nevill's were not as serious.  He flips the script and suggests June was still running around upstairs to be killed after the kitchen incident but Nevill simply collapsed in the kitchen without even needing to be beaten"

whats that got to do with  anything - it does nothing to determine the sequence.

It indicates someone who might not be an expert with the weapon that's all,

[David1819]

"David says he is objective but at each turn he speculates in favor of Jeremy to try to pretend he is innocent including ignoring medical evidence of how Serious June's injuries and ignoring that Nevill's were not as serious.  He flips the script and suggests June was still running around upstairs to be killed after the kitchen incident but Nevill simply collapsed in the kitchen without even needing to be beaten"

whats that got to do with  anything - it does nothing to determine the sequence.

It indicates someone who might not be an expert with the weapon that's all,

also I have never claimed June was running around upstairs after being shot 

[scipio_usmc]

Unless you were the murderer,there isn't a hope in Hell of knowing who died in what order.

From the casings and other information we can figure out the parents were attacked first in the master bedroom, the gun was empty and that is why things were able to proceed to the kitchen and why the struggle happened there then after reloading and killing him the gun was reloaded again and the 10 rounds of that magazine used on the boys and Sheila.  This information doesn't hinge on the identity of the killer it happened regardless of who the killer was.

You want to ask Jeremy questions for people ask him this for me.

"I figured out generally the order of the shots.  June was shot 4 times in bed, 2 more times in the chest as she was either sitting up in bed or getting up from the bed and Nevill shot 4 times.  With the gun empty the killer then either chased Nevill to the kitchen as he ran there to arm himself or chased the killer to the kitchen and then once in the kitchen they struggled over control of the weapon knocking things over, scratching the mantle and breaking the ceiling lampshade.  Then the killer gained sole control and beat Nevill with with butt of the rifle gouging Nevill's arm, tearing his watch off and finally managed to bash his head knocking him out then reloaded the gun partially and shot him 4 times killing him.  The killer then reloaded fully and went upstairs and used 8 on the boys and 2 on Sheila gun then empty.  The only wound not accounted for is the wound between Sheila's. It was fired last after she collapsed on the floor.  The question is did the killer start out with 11 rounds and shoot her between the eyes before the kitchen altercation or did the killer go upstairs with 11 rounds after the kitchen altercation and shoot her at that point to make sure she was dead. What do you think?" 

Tell him that is what someone wanted you to ask him. 

[scipio_usmc]

also I have never claimed June was running around upstairs after being shot 

No instead you suggested that Sheila fired 4 shots at June, had 4 more bullets left but was saving the forevill so just sat there looking at June in bed and June just sat there looking back at her, then Nevill came up and got shot and ran downstairs to the kitchen and simply passed out there while Sheila went to a cupboard to reload then went downstairs leaving June alone and June sat in bed until Sheila was coming back upstairs after the kitchen episode and that is when June decided to finally get up and as she was leaving the room Sheila came in and shot her 3 more times.

You completely ignore June is the one who suffered a wound in the bedroom that would be rapidly fatal not Nevill so she is the one who would have passed out right away not Nevill. You flipped the script to support what you desired to argue instead of following the evidence and trying to come up with something that fit the evidence.

[Steve_uk]

My earlier stance is the same as now. The order of the attack was the parents in the master bedroom where June was killed, then the fight in the kitchen where Nevill was killed then either the boys killed and then Sheila or Sheila and then the boys.  I have always noted the slight variations possible including that it is possible the shot between June's eyes was delivered after the kitchen attack instead of before.  Noting the variations we can't ever be certain of is not contradicting the overall events of the parents first being shot in the bedroom then Nevill which helps refute the notion that Nevill could have made a phone call before the shooting commenced.

David says he is objective but at each turn he speculates in favor of Jeremy to try to pretend he is innocent including ignoring medical evidence of how Serious June's injuries and ignoring that Nevill's were not as serious.  He flips the script and suggests June was still running around upstairs to be killed after the kitchen incident but Nevill simply collapsed in the kitchen without even needing to be beaten. 

David does what many supporters do they try to feign objectivity while their posts demonstrate otherwise so it is best just to not even bother with such pretense.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the first point,because I well remember what you originally wrote.

[Mr. Gee]

My earlier stance is the same as now. The order of the attack was the parents in the master bedroom where June was killed, then the fight in the kitchen where Nevill was killed then either the boys killed and then Sheila or Sheila and then the boys.  I have always noted the slight variations possible including that it is possible the shot between June's eyes was delivered after the kitchen attack instead of before.  Noting the variations we can't ever be certain of is not contradicting the overall events of the parents first being shot in the bedroom then Nevill which helps refute the notion that Nevill could have made a phone call before the shooting commenced.

David says he is objective but at each turn he speculates in favor of Jeremy to try to pretend he is innocent including ignoring medical evidence of how Serious June's injuries and ignoring that Nevill's were not as serious.  He flips the script and suggests June was still running around upstairs to be killed after the kitchen incident but Nevill simply collapsed in the kitchen without even needing to be beaten. 

David does what many supporters do they try to feign objectivity while their posts demonstrate otherwise so it is best just to not even bother with such pretense.

Yours is still an opinion though. I fear that whilst you accuse others as not being objective that you yourself are not as objective as you would like us to think?

[Jane]

Yours is still an opinion though. I fear that whilst you accuse others as not being objective that you yourself are not as objective as you would like us to think?

How many of us actually are, Grahame?

[scipio_usmc]

Yours is still an opinion though. I fear that whilst you accuse others as not being objective that you yourself are not as objective as you would like us to think?

It is not opinion but fact established by the evidence that shooting commenced in the master bedroom at both parents and that with the gun empty the killer and Nevill went to the kitchen and had their altercation where Nevill was killed then the magazine fully reloaded with 8 of those rounds used on the boys and 2 on Sheila.

The wildcard is did the gun have 11 bullets at the outset or 11 upon going back upstairs from the kitchen. Whichever is the case that is when the final shot to June between her eyes was delivered.

[Mr. Gee]

It is not opinion but fact established by the evidence that shooting commenced in the master bedroom at both parents and that with the gun empty the killer and Nevill went to the kitchen and had their altercation where Nevill was killed then the magazine fully reloaded with 8 of those rounds used on the boys and 2 on Sheila.

The wildcard is did the gun have 11 bullets at the outset or 11 upon going back upstairs from the kitchen. Whichever is the case that is when the final shot to June between her eyes was delivered.

Well scipio we will just have to agree to disagree as Steve said.

[David1819]

No instead you suggested that Sheila fired 4 shots at June, had 4 more bullets left but was saving the forevill so just sat there looking at June in bed and June just sat there looking back at her, then Nevill came up and got shot and ran downstairs to the kitchen and simply passed out there while Sheila went to a cupboard to reload then went downstairs leaving June alone and June sat in bed until Sheila was coming back upstairs after the kitchen episode and that is when June decided to finally get up and as she was leaving the room Sheila came in and shot her 3 more times.

You completely ignore June is the one who suffered a wound in the bedroom that would be rapidly fatal not Nevill so she is the one who would have passed out right away not Nevill. You flipped the script to support what you desired to argue instead of following the evidence and trying to come up with something that fit the evidence.

More to the point I never claimed June was running around after being shot. I said she could have dragged or struggled slowly to the door while the killer was reloading. I also stated this was possible with both senarios of Jeremy and Shelia being the culprit

[Alias]

More to the point I never claimed June was running around after being shot. I said she could have dragged or struggled slowly to the door while the killer was reloading. I also stated this was possible with both senarios of Jeremy and Shelia being the culprit

The spots of blood on the carpet (allegedly June´s) are round without a "tail", so they indicate slow movement, very slow.

[Steve_uk]

The spots of blood on the carpet (allegedly June´s) are round without a "tail", so they indicate slow movement, very slow.

There's also June's blood outside Sheila's bedroom..