The main prosecution forensic case

[scipio_usmc]

The other thing Scip, is I think the killer 'may' have miscounted the bullets when it came to Sheila, and fired the two shots but thinking there was only one bullet left.

If that makes sense? 

A gun with a low trigger pull like the murder weapon is very easy to double tap, which means two shots in quick succession.  However, if that happened one would expect the wounds to be closer and trajectories much closer.  Worse Vanezis said several seconds elapsed between Sheila's shots.  He said that several seconds passed before the second was fired but not too many seconds.  So this seems to suggest the second shot through the chin into the brain was intentional.  The first shot was nearly level the gun was almost a 90 degree angle to the neck and the bullet went from the front of the neck to back.  My best guess is after seeing that the first shot didn't kill her Jeremy panicked and shot her again.

[guest2181]

I believe the rifle was already damaged when the children were shot for the rifle went off in succession. I also believe the rifle was damaged when NB was shot, thus might mean that he was hit with the rifle prior to reloading the magazine...The reason I believe this is that the head shots are in two's...

I believe June was shot first along with Nevill.  But I cannot explain Sheila? Something just does not fit imo...

The rifle didn't need to be damaged, it was a semi-automatic, the groups of shots reinforces Sheila being shot twice inadvertently.

Neville was hit with the rifle because the killer ran out of ammunition.

[scipio_usmc]

Actually, I was right the first time and I'm annoyed (not really  :D ) for doubting myself.

Exhibits DRH 13 & 14 were both found on the stairs and landing.

13 was in the doorway, I consider that the bedroom but if you would like to consider it the hall it amounts to tomato tomaaato.

It doesn't change that if someone is going down stairs their left side is facing the wall which makes it hard to target except a ricochet shot. The right side is what is exposed if someone is in the hall.

[guest2181]

A gun with a low trigger pull like the murder weapon is very easy to double tap, which means two shots in quick succession.  However, if that happened one would expect the wounds to be closer and trajectories much closer.  Worse Vanezis said several seconds elapsed between Sheila's shots.  He said that several seconds passed before the second was fired but not too many seconds.  So this seems to suggest the second shot through the chin into the brain was intentional.  The first shot was nearly level the gun was almost a 90 degree angle to the neck and the bullet went from the front of the neck to back.  My best guess is after seeing that the first shot didn't kill her Jeremy panicked and shot her again.

Yeah but that doesn't fit with the staging of a suicide, not for me anyway.

Perhaps the killer thought the rifle was empty and the second shot occurred accidentally when staging the rifle on Sheila's body.

[guest2181]

13 was in the doorway, I consider that the bedroom but if you would like to consider it the hall it amounts to tomato tomaaato.

It doesn't change that if someone is going down stairs their left side is facing the wall which makes it hard to target except a ricochet shot. The right side is what is exposed if someone is in the hall.

It looks like 13 is a metal strip rather than a case, on the assumption that Patti isn't leading me up the path again.

[Patti]

It looks like 13 is a metal strip rather than a case, on the assumption that Patti isn't leading me up the path again.

You can see the case shell near the metal strip in the crime scene photo's.  I'll double check DRH/13

[guest2181]

You can see the case shell near the metal strip in the crime scene photo's.  I'll double check DRH/13

I'm sure you are right Patti.

[scipio_usmc]

If NB and June were shot in the main bedroom? Where was Sheila and how did she get into the main bedroom?  Why was June walking round the bed and not heading for the door? Still many questions unanswered. 

Sheila was in bed as June and Nevill were shot. 

There is no way to know for sure whether she stayed in bed till Jeremy woke her up or she woke up on her own at some point and left her room.

She still could have been in bed when Jeremy came up from the kitchen after killing Nevill or could have woken up and walked in the hall and went to see June's body. If so and he came back up as she was there then she could have run to the other side of the bedroom to try to get away from Jeremy.

It is just as possible though Jeremy marched her to the other side of the bed at gunpoint because he needed enough room to fit her and him in the area where he planned to stage her death.  Killing her with June's body in the way wasn't ideal quite clearly.  Killing her in her own bedroom would not be idea either because then it would look like everyone was shot in their own rooms like someone went room to room killing them all including Sheila.  Killing her in a different room helped further the notion she did it.

If Sheila were up a long time she would have seen her mother's body then ran to check on her kids and probably try to wake them up and fell with them. So logic suggests if she did wake up she only managed to see June and didn't have time to check on her kids before Jeremy returned. 

[Patti]

I'm sure you are right Patti.

Just had a quick look and its was the metal strip.  I did a lot of work with that back in the good old days...

Why is the rifle known as rifle (18)?

[scipio_usmc]

Yeah but that doesn't fit with the staging of a suicide, not for me anyway.

Perhaps the killer thought the rifle was empty and the second shot occurred accidentally when staging the rifle on Sheila's body.

Necessity is the mother if invention.  If you think the 1st shot didn't kill your victim you fire another you don't risk your victim surviving.

At any rate firing another shot by accident several seconds later is possible whereas the medical evidence seems to foreclose a hair trigger doubletap happening.

 

[guest2181]

Just had a quick look and its was the metal strip.  I did a lot of work with that back in the good old days...

Why is the rifle known as rifle (18)?

That was the court exhibit reference.

Caveat: I think. 

[Patti]

Sheila was in bed as June and Nevill were shot. 

There is no way to know for sure whether she stayed in bed till Jeremy woke her up or she woke up on her own at some point and left her room.

She still could have been in bed when Jeremy came up from the kitchen after killing Nevill or could have woken up and walked in the hall and went to see June's body. If so and he came back up as she was there then she could have run to the other side of the bedroom to try to get away from Jeremy.

It is just as possible though Jeremy marched her to the other side of the bed at gunpoint because he needed enough room to fit her and him in the area where he planned to stage her death.  Killing her with June's body in the way wasn't ideal quite clearly.  Killing her in her own bedroom would not be idea either because then it would look like everyone was shot in their own rooms like someone went room to room killing them all including Sheila.  Killing her in a different room helped further the notion she did it.

If Sheila were up a long time she would have seen her mother's body then ran to check on her kids and probably try to wake them up and fell with them. So logic suggests if she did wake up she only managed to see June and didn't have time to check on her kids before Jeremy returned.

mmmm

There is no sign of a struggle in the main bedroom is there? Yet there is a claim that NB had run out bullets. If this is so, why did NB not tackle Jeremy upstairs? 

 

[scipio_usmc]

It looks like 13 is a metal strip rather than a case, on the assumption that Patti isn't leading me up the path again.

DRH/3 was in the doorway of the bedroom. I consider it in the bedroom but it makes no real difference if someone calls it the hall.

Edit: sorry DRH/3 was a typo the 1 got eaten I meant DRH/13. Right inside the doorway is a metal floor strip. This strip is technically inside the room.  DRH/13 was supposedly sitting on it. So whether you call this in the room or the hall is a matter of tomato tomaato.  It is in the doorway right in between.
 
DRH/14 was in the hall right against the bedroom wall. Someone clearly had it stuck on their shoe and brought it there from the kitchen then it shook loose from the shoe and either landed in the corner or deposited away from the wall but it was later kicked into wall so it lodged in the corner of the wall.  If it was kicked into the wall on purpose that was a no no.

 

[guest2181]

mmmm

There is no sign of a struggle in the main bedroom is there? Yet there is a claim that NB had run out bullets. If this is so, why did NB not tackle Jeremy upstairs? 

Too many NB's. 

Who knows, because of his injuries most likely, plus who is to say he knew the killer was out of bullets?

Either way, he made it to the kitchen, leaving blood smears on the walls along the way.

[Patti]

That was the court exhibit reference.

Caveat: I think. 

Just wondered because it was labelled DRH/15