Author Topic: The main prosecution forensic case  (Read 37572 times)

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Offline David1819

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #120 on: February 24, 2015, 08:14:PM »
It wasn't 1/4 her usual dose.  That is pathetic spinning even from you.  But you conveniently ignore the medical evidence that there is little effective difference between 50MG and 100MG and no advantage gained in excess of 100MG and that it is not even safe to administer above 100MG for any length of time.  Ferguson overdosed her base don out current medical knowledge.  You and other Jeremy supporters (yeah I know you don't want to admit you are one but too bad your post demonstrate you are your admission is not required) choose to ignore our current medical knowledge ot try to pretend her medicine dosage might not have been sufficient.  That is all it is- PRETENSE.

The exact issue though is the side effects of the medication and her own doctor said she was overmedicated.  You want to ignore that too because it is inconvenient to what you WANT to believe.
 

It's not crazy at all that she could have slept through it.  The boys slept through it and there are plenty of documented cases of people sleeping through murders.

Killing her in her own room would be suggestive of her being killed in her bedroom by someone else just like everyone else.  It would be suspicious not supportive of murder suicide.  Killing her in a room with other victims makes the most sense to do for someone staging a a scene.

Your refusal to face something as possible doesn't somehow render it impossible. It just means you close your eyes to the possibility.

You don't know they slept through it, no one can determine they didn't die first

Offline susan

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #121 on: February 24, 2015, 08:15:PM »
Alias your scenario about Sheila waking up and wandering into her parents bedroom does seem feasible and by that time Jeremy had gone back upstairs if indeed he is the guilty one. Good thinking.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #122 on: February 24, 2015, 08:16:PM »
I don't believe that would be the case if Jeremy done it. I will quote my theory as I previously posted

"I'm convinced this would be the case with Jeremy if he done it, He would have killed them all fairly efficiently and once setup and completed the staged suicide killing Shelia last he would have re-loaded and fired more shots into Neville, June and the Twins to make it look more sloppy and poorly executed like a ill minded person would have done it.

I can't believe for one minute that the kids would have slept through the shooting and screaming and whatever happened down the staircase and in the kitchen its not feasible.

The 25 shots if Jeremy done it would be a result of him making it look like he didn't do it. He also admitted that he trashed up the caravan park office so it would appear it was not him.

That's my guess"

Documented cases prove your belief they could not have slept through it to be not based on anything except a fiction you invented in your mind.  There are documented cases of weapon of larger caliber than the murder weapon being employed and no silencer being employed and the victims being killed in rooms adjacent to the bedroom of the witness and yet nothing was heard and the witness didn't wake up thus the witness didn't actually witness anything.

In the meantime you are ignoring the limitations placed by the weapon's magazine.
 
The evidence establishes at least 10- and possibly 11 shots were fired in the master bedroom at June and Nevill in a single sitting. 

Explain how that could have happened if more than 1 shot was fired at the boys before the parents woke up.  You are the one saying no way anyone could sleep through the noise so that means after shooting the boys Jeremy woudl have to have moved very fast to fire while June was still in bed and Nevill was in the processing of getting up.  So explain to us your theory of how he was able to shoot the boys and rush in with a gun that had enough bullets to fire at least 10 shots.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jan

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #123 on: February 24, 2015, 08:18:PM »
so she slept through the beating up of Neville in the kitchen as well and then JB walked through the blood from June on the bedroom floor - got Sheila to sit down and shot her under the chin and even after the first shot she did not fight or flinch - even though her sons could have been alive? The JB gets out without leaving any blood on the sills or in the office when he puts the silencer away ( not noticing the blob of jam like blood on it)


really?

Offline Alias

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #124 on: February 24, 2015, 08:19:PM »
It wasn't 1/4 her usual dose.  That is pathetic spinning even from you.  But you conveniently ignore the medical evidence that there is little effective difference between 50MG and 100MG and no advantage gained in excess of 100MG and that it is not even safe to administer above 100MG for any length of time.  Ferguson overdosed her base don out current medical knowledge.  You and other Jeremy supporters (yeah I know you don't want to admit you are one but too bad your post demonstrate you are your admission is not required) choose to ignore our current medical knowledge ot try to pretend her medicine dosage might not have been sufficient.  That is all it is- PRETENSE.

The exact issue though is the side effects of the medication and her own doctor said she was overmedicated.  You want to ignore that too because it is inconvenient to what you WANT to believe.
 

It's not crazy at all that she could have slept through it.  The boys slept through it and there are plenty of documented cases of people sleeping through murders.

Killing her in her own room would be suggestive of her being killed in her bedroom by someone else just like everyone else.  It would be suspicious not supportive of murder suicide.  Killing her in a room with other victims makes the most sense to do for someone staging a a scene.

Your refusal to face something as possible doesn't somehow render it impossible. It just means you close your eyes to the possibility.

I stopped reading right there, so you have just wasted your time.

Offline Alias

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #125 on: February 24, 2015, 08:22:PM »
so she slept through the beating up of Neville in the kitchen as well and then JB walked through the blood from June on the bedroom floor - got Sheila to sit down and shot her under the chin and even after the first shot she did not fight or flinch - even though her sons could have been alive? The JB gets out without leaving any blood on the sills or in the office when he puts the silencer away ( not noticing the blob of jam like blood on it)


really?

Also there wasn´t just noise from the gun! The dog(s) were yapping, yells and screams - they weren´t whispering for sure!

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #126 on: February 24, 2015, 08:22:PM »
Alias your scenario about Sheila waking up and wandering into her parents bedroom does seem feasible and by that time Jeremy had gone back upstairs if indeed he is the guilty one. Good thinking.

The full scenario I presented was she might have been looking at her mother and then upon seeing Jeremy with the gun she ran to the other side of the room to get away or Jeremy ordered her to the other side of the room at gunpoint. Alias didn't like the suggestion he ordered her in, she is only willing to accept the possibility that she ran in to escape from him. 

It doesn't really matter though, all that matters is that it is possible for Sheila to have been shot by Jeremy where her body was found.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Alias

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #127 on: February 24, 2015, 08:25:PM »
The full scenario I presented was she might have been looking at her mother and then upon seeing Jeremy with the gun she ran to the other side of the room to get away or Jeremy ordered her to the other side of the room at gunpoint. Alias didn't like the suggestion he ordered her in, she is only willing to accept the possibility that she ran in to escape from him. 

It doesn't really matter though, all that matters is that it is possible for Sheila to have been shot by Jeremy where her body was found.

Possible but unlikely.

BTW, don´t pretend to know better than anybody else here what happened. You don´t.

Offline susan

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #128 on: February 24, 2015, 08:35:PM »
Scipio can we just say for the sake of discussion that Sheila was indeed the culprit and did shoot her family why did she decide to take her life in June's bedroom I read Colin;'s book and he said Sheila would have died with her boys and certainly not June because Sheila was more fond of her Dad than her Mum.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #129 on: February 24, 2015, 08:43:PM »
so she slept through the beating up of Neville in the kitchen as well and then JB walked through the blood from June on the bedroom floor - got Sheila to sit down and shot her under the chin and even after the first shot she did not fight or flinch - even though her sons could have been alive? The JB gets out without leaving any blood on the sills or in the office when he puts the silencer away ( not noticing the blob of jam like blood on it)


really?

Yes she really could have slept through the silenced gunshots and struggle sounds that took place in a room on a different floor than her bedroom so would not be that easy to hear.  We have no idea if the dog was barking or not.  The boys clearly slept through it so why couldn't Sheila who was on a sedative which made her sleep sound?   People not on sedatives have slept through gunshots that were not silenced so why can't Sheila?

This is a wonderful issue that demonstrates bias in favor of Jeremy.  All those who are biased in favor of Jeremy ignore that there are documented cases of people sleeping through murders committed in rooms adjacent to their bedrooms.   In this case the murders were not committed adjacent rooms and the gun had a moderator. Those who are biased don't care and simply make up that there is no way Sheila could have slept through the noise even though the evidence demonstrates the boys slept through it.

The bias is demonstrated further when looking at claims you made in the past.  You are the ones claiming that the house walls were so thick it would prevent police from hearing any gunshots fired inside while they were outside int he dead of night trying to see if they could observe or hear anything.  Never mind that the window in the bedroom was open you ignored that.  But if you want to argue the walls were so thick and soundproof then you are stuck with the argument and demonstrate bias when you use the claim for one point but ignore it when it is inconvenient.  That is called hypocrisy aside from demonstrating you are biased and have an agenda.

That hypocrisy and agenda is further demonstrated by suggesting Jeremy would have to get his mother's blood on his shoes and that such would result in leaving bloody footprints but SHeila walking through the same blood in bare feet would not result in the blood getting on her feet or leaving footprints.  This is a very poor argument in terms of logic but demonstrates your agenda very well.

Stepping on small drops of blood on a carpet will not necessarily result in much of that blood transferring to a shoe and if it does transfer to a shoe there is not much material for the shoe to transfer let alone o so so in any pattern that can be discerned. You need to coat the treads for the treads of shoes to be able to leave the pattern of the tread. We don't know how long he was at the scene before he left.  He could have washed the blood off before leaving, could have changed his clothes and stuck his bloody clothes in a bag to throw away or the blood could have dried sufficiently that there was no blood to transfer to the windows.

You make excuse after excuse to advance your agenda instead of actually following the evidence where it leads.


 

 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #130 on: February 24, 2015, 08:46:PM »
Also there wasn´t just noise from the gun! The dog(s) were yapping, yells and screams - they weren´t whispering for sure!

You have no way to know whether Crispy was barking or not.  There is certainly no reason the dogs outside would have been barking but hey when making up stuff pile on all you feel like.  This is another example how you don't follow the evidence you make up what suits your agenda.  You can;t stand when people point out your agenda though you want to pretend you are objective like Graham and you react like a victim or in some other immature manner.

At least lookout is willing to admit she is a Jeremy supporter instead if trying to hide behind professions of objectivity.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline David1819

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #131 on: February 24, 2015, 08:48:PM »
Scipio can we just say for the sake of discussion that Sheila was indeed the culprit and did shoot her family why did she decide to take her life in June's bedroom I read Colin;'s book and he said Sheila would have died with her boys and certainly not June because Sheila was more fond of her Dad than her Mum.

The problem I have with any of Colins claims is due to the fact that he never questioned Shelia doing it until the ball began rolling against Jeremy a month down the line. He accepted that Shelia had done it so at one point Shelia dying away from the Twins he accepted without question.  His book I believe has allot of insight bias

Offline Alias

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #132 on: February 24, 2015, 08:50:PM »
You have no way to know whether Crispy was barking or not.  There is certainly no reason the dogs outside would have been barking but hey when making up stuff pile on all you feel like.  This is another example how you don't follow the evidence you make up what suits your agenda.  You can;t stand when people point out your agenda though you want to pretend you are objective like Graham and you react like a victim or in some other immature manner.

At least lookout is willing to admit she is a Jeremy supporter instead if trying to hide behind professions of objectivity.

Oh, shut up! You weren´t there any more than I was. That dog was called the Pest because it barked all the time. It is so very likely that the dog woke up and barked hysterically.
You choose to be biased and in denial about something which logically would have happened.

Offline David1819

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #133 on: February 24, 2015, 08:51:PM »
Yes she really could have slept through the silenced gunshots and struggle sounds that took place in a room on a different floor than her bedroom so would not be that easy to hear.
 

The gunshots where not silenced. The silencer (soundmoderator) only prevents a sonic crack that scares pests rabbits/foxes away

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #134 on: February 24, 2015, 08:51:PM »
Scipio can we just say for the sake of discussion that Sheila was indeed the culprit and did shoot her family why did she decide to take her life in June's bedroom I read Colin;'s book and he said Sheila would have died with her boys and certainly not June because Sheila was more fond of her Dad than her Mum.

I can't come up with one.  If she shot her mother 4th and then herself last that would be a reason for such.  But June was quite obviously the first one to die. Jeremy hoped police would not figure that out though.

The scene was supposed to look like Nevill phoned Jeremy then was beaten and killed.  Then she went up and killed the boys.  Then finally she killed June and herself.

The evidence proving Nevill was shot in the bedroom with June before the kitchen altercation screws up what he wanted everyone to believe had happened.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry