Author Topic: The main prosecution forensic case  (Read 37579 times)

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Offline Alias

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2015, 05:21:PM »

Bless you, Mat :-* You know, when I first joined this forum -withing the first month, I think- Mike was promising that he had evidence which would bring about Jeremy's release immediately, if not SOONER!!!! Believing Jeremy innocent, I can't begin to tell you how thrilled I was -I went round telling people about it, for God's sake- I was a forum virgin. I didn't think people would tell lies over something SO important. I can STILL recall how I felt when the penny dropped an d it dawned on me that it was never going to happen. To say I felt let down would be a gross understatement. I WAS GUTTED. AS A SUPPORTER I WANTED WHAT MIKE SAID TO BE TRUE.I would NEVER have taken  offence if someone had suggested  it to me.

When I offered support to Grahame -and included Alias- I was recalling my own feelings of disappointment. Despite that she's plastered on line the post I supposedly responded to, is it likely, HAD I responded to that post, that I would have offered HER my support? Surely common sense decrees that I'd have confined it to Grahame.

I can only believe that if Alias found malice and offence in what I said, she must have been looking for ANYTHING she could throw at me. Mat, I DO appreciate your support but I'm truly sorry that you've been made part of this.

It was the only post I had written about it + a short one where I said, "We won´t see that photo, end of." - or something like that.

The whole thing came across to me as if you were trying to make Gee and me look stupid for believing Mike (after I had made it perfectly clear I didn´t - I wasn´t disappointed, I never believed what he said!)
I never saw it as support, but as a totally unnecessary jab.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 05:43:PM by Alias »

guest154

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2015, 05:22:PM »
For my part in it Alias, can we just say - I am sorry that it came across as it did - and we can move on with no hard feelings?  :)

Offline susan

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #92 on: February 24, 2015, 05:26:PM »
Hello Mat very well said Alias is a top girl and would never be deliberately vindictive I guess a misunderstanding has occurred :) and the whole matter should be forgotten :)

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #93 on: February 24, 2015, 05:28:PM »
Hello Mat very well said Alias is a top girl and would never be deliberately vindictive I guess a misunderstanding has occurred :) and the whole matter should be forgotten :)

Hi Susan.
The problem with misunderstandings is they just get bigger and bigger over time and once feelings are hurt people tend to rub against each other even when they don't mean to. I think I have enough enemies here, I don't want to be on the odds with Alias too.  ;D

Offline susan

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #94 on: February 24, 2015, 05:35:PM »
Mat you don't have enemies here at all we all loves ya  :-* :-* :-*

Offline lookout

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2015, 05:36:PM »
You're the one who creates enemies,Mat,nobody else here.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2015, 05:47:PM »
If Jeremy committed the crime I speculate this. The Twins most probably died first, one still had his thumb in his mouth indicating he was asleep and by all reports  said they probably died in their sleep.
Its extremely unlikely they would have slept thought the massacre had they not been first.

I have always thought that Jeremy would have shot them both first point blank range one shot each to the head, Then once everyone was eliminated he would have reloaded the gun and fired more shots to make it look more like the work of a deranged mind than that of a calculated killer.

Does that make sense?

It doesn't make sense for several reasons.

1) The experts say the shots were fired in succession at the boys.  The nature of the wounds and the tight grouping of the shots resulted in the experts saying they were fired in succession

2) Children generally sleep the soundest and are the least likely to wake up/get up if they wake up.
He knew his mother was the least sound sleeper int he house so the most likely to wake up who in turn would wake up Nevill.  The parents confronting him is a far greater threat than the kids waking up so the parents would be the logical first target.

3) Had the children been shot first with 1 round each that leaves 8-9 rounds in the gun (depending upon whether it originally had 10 or 11).  No less than 10 shots were fired in the master bedroom in the initial exchange with the parents (4 into Nevill and 6 into June).  If the boys were shot first there would not be enough bullets left in the gun for 10 shots to have been fired.     

The only wound suffered in the upstairs bedroom that could potentially have been delivered later on was June's shot between the eyes.  The other shots were all delivered while she was in bed or in the process of getting up so had to all be the same time.  Back spatter on the door among other things indicates she was lying on the floor when the shot between her eyes was fired. It is the only round that could have been delivered anytime because she was already dead lying down when it happened and thus didn;t have to happen immediately.

If the gun had 11 rounds at the outset and 2 had been use don the boys how could 10 have been left to use in the master bedroom? Only 9 would have been left and only 9 shots woudl have been fired but at minimum 10 were fired so this contradicts your theory.

Realistically, if the gun had 11 rounds at the outset then the shot between June's eye was delivered right away and thus all 11 rounds in the master bedroom were fired the same time.  If the gun had 10 rounds at the outset that means  Jeremy came back from the kitchen after killing Nevill with 11 rounds int he gun and that he shot June at that point just to make sure she was dead after seeing what it took to make sure Nevill died he didn't want to take any chances.  He also wouldn't want to take any chances with the boys which explains why he fired several shots into them. Nevill being able to put up the struggle he did and June being able to get out of bed didn't exactly instill confidence in his weapon.

It is obvious to me that the boys slept through everything that had happened and were killed after June and Nevill.  If Sheila was up by the time Jeremy went back upstairs then he would have dealt with her first otherwise taken care of the twins first.  We don't have enough information to know whether Sheila was up already at that point or not so have no good way to assess whether she was killed before them or after.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline susan

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2015, 06:01:PM »
Hello Scipio may I ask where do you think Sheila was when Jeremy was murdering his family including her two boys.  The programme on the TV last night said Sheila was drugged but according to the autopsy report that is just not true.  This really does confuse me.

Offline Alias

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2015, 06:09:PM »
Hello Scipio may I ask where do you think Sheila was when Jeremy was murdering his family including her two boys.  The programme on the TV last night said Sheila was drugged but according to the autopsy report that is just not true.  This really does confuse me.

Me too. One of my big problems with the Jeremy did it scenario - as I have said so often (read, ad nauseam  :P)

Offline David1819

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #99 on: February 24, 2015, 06:13:PM »
Hello Scipio may I ask where do you think Sheila was when Jeremy was murdering his family including her two boys.  The programme on the TV last night said Sheila was drugged but according to the autopsy report that is just not true.  This really does confuse me.

what program was that?

Offline susan

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #100 on: February 24, 2015, 06:19:PM »
David it was on last for an hour think it was called slaughter at the farmhouse we have had it on here with You Tube maybe viewers in England saw this years ago we are a little behind in The Highlands ;D it was absolutely dreadful it is the one where Barbara Wilson really talks so badly about Jeremy and it did portray very much Jeremy guilty.

Offline Jane

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #101 on: February 24, 2015, 06:23:PM »
what program was that?


"Slaughter at the Farm" It HAS to have been one of the worst I've ever seen despite the fact that a friend of mine gave an interview. I can  only think the reason he never told me was because he was embarrassed by by the whole thing.

Offline David1819

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #102 on: February 24, 2015, 06:33:PM »
It doesn't make sense for several reasons.

1) The experts say the shots were fired in succession at the boys.  The nature of the wounds and the tight grouping of the shots resulted in the experts saying they were fired in succession

2) Children generally sleep the soundest and are the least likely to wake up/get up if they wake up.
He knew his mother was the least sound sleeper int he house so the most likely to wake up who in turn would wake up Nevill.  The parents confronting him is a far greater threat than the kids waking up so the parents would be the logical first target.

3) Had the children been shot first with 1 round each that leaves 8-9 rounds in the gun (depending upon whether it originally had 10 or 11).  No less than 10 shots were fired in the master bedroom in the initial exchange with the parents (4 into Nevill and 6 into June).  If the boys were shot first there would not be enough bullets left in the gun for 10 shots to have been fired.     

The only wound suffered in the upstairs bedroom that could potentially have been delivered later on was June's shot between the eyes.  The other shots were all delivered while she was in bed or in the process of getting up so had to all be the same time.  Back spatter on the door among other things indicates she was lying on the floor when the shot between her eyes was fired. It is the only round that could have been delivered anytime because she was already dead lying down when it happened and thus didn;t have to happen immediately.

If the gun had 11 rounds at the outset and 2 had been use don the boys how could 10 have been left to use in the master bedroom? Only 9 would have been left and only 9 shots woudl have been fired but at minimum 10 were fired so this contradicts your theory.

Realistically, if the gun had 11 rounds at the outset then the shot between June's eye was delivered right away and thus all 11 rounds in the master bedroom were fired the same time.  If the gun had 10 rounds at the outset that means  Jeremy came back from the kitchen after killing Nevill with 11 rounds int he gun and that he shot June at that point just to make sure she was dead after seeing what it took to make sure Nevill died he didn't want to take any chances.  He also wouldn't want to take any chances with the boys which explains why he fired several shots into them. Nevill being able to put up the struggle he did and June being able to get out of bed didn't exactly instill confidence in his weapon.

It is obvious to me that the boys slept through everything that had happened and were killed after June and Nevill.  If Sheila was up by the time Jeremy went back upstairs then he would have dealt with her first otherwise taken care of the twins first.  We don't have enough information to know whether Sheila was up already at that point or not so have no good way to assess whether she was killed before them or after.

How could an expert determine that with certainty? The autopsy was carried out before it became a murder investigation. Shooting someone in the head then 5-10 minutues later shoot them again in the same area how could they distinguish between the two? It may appear in quick succession does not mean it was.

I'm convinced this would be the case with Jeremy if he done it, He would have killed them all fairly efficiently and once setup and completed the staged suicide killing Shelia last he would have re-loaded and fired more shots into Neville, June and the Twins to make it look more sloppy and poorly executed like a ill minded person would have done it.

I can't believe for one minute that the kids would have slept through the shooting and screaming and whatever happened down the staircase and in the kitchen its not feasible.

The 25 shots if Jeremy done it would be a result of him making it look like he didn't do it. He also admitted that he trashed up the caravan park office so it would appear it was not him.

That's my guess

Offline David1819

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #103 on: February 24, 2015, 06:35:PM »
David it was on last for an hour think it was called slaughter at the farmhouse we have had it on here with You Tube maybe viewers in England saw this years ago we are a little behind in The Highlands ;D it was absolutely dreadful it is the one where Barbara Wilson really talks so badly about Jeremy and it did portray very much Jeremy guilty.

Can you provide a link please?

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The main prosecution forensic case
« Reply #104 on: February 24, 2015, 06:38:PM »
Hello Scipio may I ask where do you think Sheila was when Jeremy was murdering his family including her two boys.  The programme on the TV last night said Sheila was drugged but according to the autopsy report that is just not true.  This really does confuse me.

She was drugged in the sense that her psychotic medication was a strong sedative.  The implication from that is she likely slept very soundly and didn't wake up until Jeremy woke her.

Sheila was in bed while her parents were shot in their bedroom.  While the scuffle in the kitchen took place it is possible she woke up, left her room and then saw June on the floor and then when Jeremy came back upstairs he encountered her and killed her before the boys.  It is just as possible she was still in bed when he came back upstairs and that he killed the boys then went and woke her up to kill her.

Killing Sheila in her room would be suggestive of her being killed by someone else just like everyone else.  It would be suggestive of the killer going bedroom to bedroom.  Killing her in a different room makes sense.  The narrative he wanted to create by killing her in the same room as June would be to suggest she killed June and then herself.  But the evidence stablishes June was the first to die not the next to last.

 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry