The main prosecution forensic case

[Alias]

How could Jeremy count on Sheila not waking up and how could he count on her cooperation in staging a suicide?

[Mr. Gee]

That doesn't mean it will bark at him.  If it didn't like Jeremy then in the event Jeremy tries to touch it then it might growl or bite him. Some dogs are just scared and run away if you try to touch them others try to bite.

Two ways a professional would handle the situation. Give the dog a nice juicy steak, or kill it. A determined killer would not hesitate to kill it in my opinion?

[Steve_uk]

1) David chooses to believe the kids were shot first no matter what.  He asserts several shots were fired into the kids, then the killer went to the master bedroom fired 4 into June and came back after the kitchen shooting to fire 3 more into her.  David chooses to ignore the evidence that June suffered at least 6 shots in a row and collapsed on the floor before the killer could return from the kitchen.  He doesn't care that the other 2 shots were fired while she was either seated or getting up and thus could not have been delivered while she was lying on the floor which is where she had to be by the time the killer returned from the kitchen.

2) David chooses to ignore the evidence that Nevill's 4 wounds from upstairs were not immediately life threatening and that there was a struggle and prefers to believe he simply stumbled to the kitchen then collapsed over the chair.

3) You are forgetting that it is theoretically possible for Jeremy to have loaded 11 bullets at the outset and thus to have fired all 7 at June and 4 at Nevill in the initial shooting event. If that happened the killer went upstairs with only 10 and only shot the boys and Sheila in the post kitchen shooting.  There is no way to know for sure whether the gun had 11 prior to the kitchen episode or after.  This doesn't affect your point though about the boys being shot after the kitchen episode.

Scipio I salute you again for this thread,which must surely have converted even more members to the guilty camp. I was wondering if you could answer a few loose ends,such as the claim by Andrew Hunter that this may have been a two-gun crime,which would have implications about the necessity to reload,and also the allegation that Nevill slept with a gun under the bed(I'm supposing that the element of surprise would have rendered this useless to him if Jeremy slugged him first). Instead of marching his father downstairs couldn't he just have shot them both in situ and returned the telephone to the bedroom post-murders,or do you believe the march downstairs was part of the original plan?

I don't see Sheila in any kind of panic that last evening,having exhausted herself the previous weekend with the two parties and reaching a modus vivendi with herself after the monastery incident. I see her as being swept along with the tide of events occurring externally,which might be a fitting epitaph for her life experiences in general,a young vulnerable girl led to her death by a man who saw no other escape from the confinement which his family circumstances had inflicted upon him and which is one reason why he has taken to prison life so placidly as he approaches the milestone of thirty years' incarceration.

[David1819]

How could Jeremy count on Sheila not waking up and how could he count on her cooperation in staging a suicide?

By looking at the photos and blood splatter.

He would have had her standing up placed the gun under her chin or close to it then fired

Once on the floor and realised she had not died he would then proceed to crouch down then press the barrel against her neck or rest the gun on her chest then pulled the trigger again.

[Mr. Gee]

Scipio I salute you again for this thread,which must surely have converted even more members to the guilty camp. I was wondering if you could answer a few loose ends,such as the claim by Andrew Hunter that this may have been a two-gun crime,which would have implications about the necessity to reload,and also the allegation that Nevill slept with a gun under the bed(I'm supposing that the element of surprise would have rendered this useless to him if Jeremy slugged him first). Instead of marching his father downstairs couldn't he just have shot them both in situ and returned the telephone to the bedroom post-murders,or do you believe the march downstairs was part of the original plan?

I don't see Sheila in any kind of panic that last evening,having exhausted herself the previous weekend with the two parties and reaching a modus vivendi with herself after the monastery incident. I see her as being swept along with the tide of events occurring externally,which might be a fitting epitaph for her life experiences in general,a young vulnerable girl led to her death by a man who saw no other escape from the confinement which his family circumstances had inflicted upon him and which is one reason why he has taken to prison life so placidly as he approaches the milestone of thirty years' incarceration.

Remember it is only scipio refuting another theory and that what he says is still only his theory. I also think that his ego gets in the way for anyone but the humblest person to be converted. Personally I'd prefer to stick my fingers down my throat that to read any more of his cock sure ideas.

[Alias]

By looking at the photos and blood splatter.

He would have had her standing up placed the gun under her chin or close to it then fired

Once on the floor and realised she had not died he would then proceed to crouch down then press the barrel against her neck or rest the gun on her chest then pulled the trigger again.

I am thinking about beforehand. How could he possibly count on that things would turn out as he planned? Her sleeping through it all, then being quite passive during the murder of her?

[Steve_uk]

How could Jeremy count on Sheila not waking up and how could he count on her cooperation in staging a suicide?

I just think Sheila was too far gone,when you consider how she was perceived by the nurse at the twins' party, echoed by the Tiptree shopkeeper,her listlessness around the Farm and her fear of strangers. It was her very condition which gave Jeremy the idea of leading her to her death like a lamb to the slaughter,putting her out of her misery as he was similarly despatching Nevill and June,yet if we follow his reasoning the justification falls down spectacularly with the cold-blooded murder of the twins, who would I'm sure under Colin's tutelage become model citizens, and who had all their lives ahead of them.

[lookout]

What woman would let someone murder her children,unless she'd done it herself ?

[lookout]

It sadly looks as though a woman has murdered her husband and little girl,recently on the news. It was in Notting Hill.

[Steve_uk]

Remember it is only scipio refuting another theory and that what he says is still only his theory. I also think that his ego gets in the way for anyone but the humblest person to be converted. Personally I'd prefer to stick my fingers down my throat that to read any more of his cock sure ideas.

But you have to take genius warts and all Mr. Gee and not attempt to change them. I don't think I would like to have spent an evening with a surly and irascible Beethoven,but I could easily spend a couple of hours at one of his concerts.

[lookout]

Playing his 5th Symphony,Steve ?

[maggie]

Two ways a professional would handle the situation. Give the dog a nice juicy steak, or kill it. A determined killer would not hesitate to kill it in my opinion?

I do believe that myself Mr Gee, am sure someone on a killing spree such as it was wouldn't have hesitated and would have shot Crispy, unless he was hidden and silent well out of the way.

[Jane]

Scipio I salute you again for this thread,which must surely have converted even more members to the guilty camp. I was wondering if you could answer a few loose ends,such as the claim by Andrew Hunter that this may have been a two-gun crime,which would have implications about the necessity to reload,and also the allegation that Nevill slept with a gun under the bed(I'm supposing that the element of surprise would have rendered this useless to him if Jeremy slugged him first). Instead of marching his father downstairs couldn't he just have shot them both in situ and returned the telephone to the bedroom post-murders,or do you believe the march downstairs was part of the original plan?

I don't see Sheila in any kind of panic that last evening,having exhausted herself the previous weekend with the two parties and reaching a modus vivendi with herself after the monastery incident. I see her as being swept along with the tide of events occurring externally,which might be a fitting epitaph for her life experiences in general,a young vulnerable girl led to her death by a man who saw no other escape from the confinement which his family circumstances had inflicted upon him and which is one reason why he has taken to prison life so placidly as he approaches the milestone of thirty years' incarceration.

Steve Hello. You weren't around at the time so you obviously are unaware that the monastery incident has been totally discredited.

A so called email was found, in which the "author" claimed to have been a private investigator who was threatened, AT the monastery!!!!! by men with guard dogs. One of your students could have made up a more convincing story....................AND used better grammar to express it!!!!! You'll probably find it in archives.

The story had always bothered me. The monastery is MILES from WHF, isn't accessible, if one doesn't drive, by any way other than by foot or bicycle. OTHER than someone giving her a lift -and none have admitted to this- it would have taken her HOURS to walk there.............and back!!! So this lethargic girl had left the house at crack of dawn to make this pilgrimage which allegedly ended with her having hysterics. Her absence/return/hysteria mentioned by no one. Her children simply left........................but none of this has been commented on.

[Steve_uk]

Steve Hello. You weren't around at the time so you obviously are unaware that the monastery incident has been totally discredited.

A so called email was found, in which the "author" claimed to have been a private investigator who was threatened, AT the monastery!!!!! by men with guard dogs. One of your students could have made up a more convincing story....................AND used better grammar to express it!!!!! You'll probably find it in archives.

The story had always bothered me. The monastery is MILES from WHF, isn't accessible, if one doesn't drive, by any way other than by foot or bicycle. OTHER than someone giving her a lift -and none have admitted to this- it would have taken her HOURS to walk there.............and back!!! So this lethargic girl had left the house at crack of dawn to make this pilgrimage which allegedly ended with her having hysterics. Her absence/return/hysteria mentioned by no one. Her children simply left........................but none of this has been commented on.

There's a lesson for all of us there to take books with a pinch of salt. I assume that the incident with the electrician is bona fide though?

[Mr. Gee]

But you have to take genius warts and all Mr. Gee and not attempt to change them. I don't think I would like to have spent an evening with a surly and irascible Beethoven,but I could easily spend a couple of hours at one of his concerts.

I don't think he is a genius by any stretch of the imagination. He has a gift of memory and his training as a lawyer.