submit questions for the Essex Police Challenge

[lookout]

I know that both anorexia and self harm have previously been hinted at but there doesn't seem to be proof of either. Self harmers don't usually put their fists through windows -a blade does a good enough job- although those feeling frustrated and in a foul temper might.

Self-harmers DO put their hands/fists through windows or they wouldn't do it. Someone in a temper would think twice.

[John]

I know that both anorexia and self harm have previously been hinted at but there doesn't seem to be proof of either. Self harmers don't usually put their fists through windows -a blade does a good enough job- although those feeling frustrated and in a foul temper might.

Absolutely correct, if Sheila had been a threat to the twins she would never have been permitted custody.

In any event, killing five family members in one go in the manner in which the WHF murders were carried out requires a cold calculated approach and a specific knowledge of that particular firearm, something which Sheila Caffell most certainly never had.  And that is without even mentioning the scuffle in the kitchen which was so violent that a piece was broken off the murder weapon and marks left around the range.  To even suggest that Sheila was involved in such a struggle with a much taller, stronger man and came away from it completely unmarked and unscathed is contrary to common sense.

[lookout]

She had to!   In any event much of what she said in her statement was backed up by others who had experienced the exact same behaviour.  The police would never have used Julie's evidence if they thought for a minute that she was making it all up.  Her admission that she was involved in the Osea Caravan Park break-in and robbery went a very long way to enhancing her credibility.  Add to this the fact that she came clean over the cheque fraud and the drug selling and it becomes abundantly clear that she was perceived as a reliable witness, something which was later borne out in the courtroom.

Good job I know different then,isn't it ?

[David1819]

What are my ridiculous assumptions? List them!

He concludes what your assumptions are by using his own assumptions as facts. Scip in a nutshell

[David1819]

Sheila was looking forward to a new beginning with her family

source please?

[Caroline]

Self-harmers DO put their hands/fists through windows or they wouldn't do it. Someone in a temper would think twice.

No they wouldn't - people have killed other people because they have been so angry they couldn't help themselves. Just because someone punches a wall or puts there hand through a window, doesn't make them a self-harmer and there is NO EVIDENCE that Sheila was a self-harmer!!

[lookout]

Absolutely correct, if Sheila had been a threat to the twins she would never have been permitted custody.

Marks found on the twins bore testament at how good a mother Sheila was when they were in her care. This is why Colin wanted FULL custody of them and sought Neville's permission to do so.

[scipio_usmc]

What are my ridiculous assumptions? List them!

They abound but in this particular instance you are assuming the phone call was realistically possible though the evidence says otherwise. Instead of evaluating the evidence to see whether it is realistically possible you simply assume it is ad assume there is a 50/50 chance either way. 

[maggie]

I know that both anorexia and self harm have previously been hinted at but there doesn't seem to be proof of either. Self harmers don't usually put their fists through windows -a blade does a good enough job- although those feeling frustrated and in a foul temper might.

True but there are many other ways of self harming such as drug taking.  Violent temper tantrums are a common side effect or symptom of schizophrenia.

[lookout]

No they wouldn't - people have killed other people because they have been so angry they couldn't help themselves. Just because someone punches a wall or puts there hand through a window, doesn't make them a self-harmer and there is NO EVIDENCE that Sheila was a self-harmer!!

I've read that Sheila was a self-harmer.Injuring themselves makes them feel better.  It's in one of the doctors testimonies.

[Caroline]

I've read that Sheila was a self-harmer.Injuring themselves makes them feel better.  It's in one of the doctors testimonies.

Yes, you have mentioned this before but I have seen no evidence of it and her body shows no sign of it either. Self harmers always have scarring for obvious reasons - Sheila did not.

[Jan]

I don't believe the call happened and so in my view, he made it up which makes him guilty.  The phone call (far from being 'utter rubbish or not important) is incredibly important and anyone who doesn't understand that - hasn't really understood the specifics of he case and that's a fact!

You don't have to shout.

I don't think there is anyone who does not understand that . So I am not quite sure where you are coming from unless you have proof it did not happen.

[Jane]

She was in recovery so let's hear no more bullshit lookout.  Sheila was looking forward to a new beginning with her family, a new beginning which was a very big threat to Jeremy Bamber.  All of a sudden he was about to lose a huge chunk of his inheritance so his hand was very much forced.  What better opportunity did he have to get rid of them all at once? ...coincidence?  Hardly!

Remember the pills he was going to use on them?   How he was going to burn down the house but thought better of it when he realised that all those antiques would also burn.  If anyone had a mental illness I fear you can lay that particular affliction at the feet of Jeremy Bamber.

Isn't it interesting, the different ways in which we all see Sheila. I wonder who she was really.

I don't believe she was looking forward to a happy life with the family. Not the English one, anyway. I think, when her biological mother left she took with her all Sheila's hopes of what might have been and she may have been left with what was. Certainly, she seems to have accepted religion but I suspect more to please June than herself. I get the feeling that she may have had to work very hard at pleasing June and may even have tried to persuade the boys to do the same.

I can't go along with Jeremy having a mental illness. I'll settle for personality disorder, though.

[Caroline]

You don't have to shout.

I don't think there is anyone who does not understand that . So I am not quite sure where you are coming from unless you have proof it did not happen.

Patti called my earlier post 'utter rubbish' and Lookout just claimed the call wasn't important. Clearly some people are either trying to play the importance down or they just don't understand it. Oh and I'm not shouting - I'm not even talking, I'm typing.

[John]

Marks found on the twins bore testament at how good a mother Sheila was when they were in her care. This is why Colin wanted FULL custody of them and sought Neville's permission to do so.

She reared them mostly on her own didn't she?  Quite frankly, three or four bullet holes in the head renders your arguments laughable if the whole thing wasn't so sad.

You have NO evidence which supports Jeremy Bamber which isn't that surprising really but do keep on trying.  Many legal eagles before you have attempted to do what you are doing but they have all similarly failed, the best that even they could have hoped for was a retrial on the basis that the conviction was unsafe.  Not even that succeeded as the evidence against Jeremy is unassailable.