Author Topic: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...  (Read 21975 times)

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Offline Jan

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #435 on: February 07, 2015, 09:02:PM »
Their claims were rejected by the CCRC

 ::) ::) ::)

that does not prove the claims were actually wrong though does it.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #436 on: February 07, 2015, 09:56:PM »
Their claims were rejected by the CCRC

 ::) ::) ::)

that does not prove the claims were actually wrong though does it.

I explained why the claims were bunk not just that they were rejected.

A rational Jeremy supporter who wants to raise a rejected claim would be up front about its rejection and then attempt to explain why the rejection was wrong.

David just ran with a claim from Fowler and didn't even properly attribute it trying to pretend it came from the Autopsy report and a COA decision discussing Neville's wounds.

The fact of the matter is that when we get into specifics the claims of Jeremy supporters always fall apart and never survive scrutiny.

Fowler read the autopsy report, decided the pathologist made a mistake by misinterpreting a muzzle imprint as powder burns.  He wasn't honest enough to come out and say that he wash challenging Vanezis' assessment and just said that in his opinion the things Vanezis described sound to him like a muzzle imprint.  He would have needed to actually examine the body or see some very good closeups of the wounds in order to be in a position to even attempt to assess Vanezis as being wrong.  Instead he just read what Vanezis wrote and changed it to suit his ends.  That is what some experts do because they want to help the side that pays them so are not honest.

The BS didn't fool the CCRC and at best will fool Jeremy supporters but mainly because Jeremy supporters don't care about the truth enough to actually educate themselves about the matter enough to evaluate whether the claims are valid or not.

Jeremy's supporters are too biased to do that and when someone else tries to open their eyes to the truth they clothes their eyes and dismiss the evidence because they don't want to face it it is like dragging a kicking and screaming kid somewhere he/she doesn't want to go. 

It doesn't take a lawyer to recognize the starting point of evaluating the claims is to go to the autopsy report to see what it actually says and one can see quite clearly it doesn't describe a muzzle imprint being found let alone detailing the size which is what David asserted the autopsy report had in it. 

If Vanezis had found a muzzle imprint then the defense would have had an expert discuss the ramifications at trial and the prosecution would have discussed same as well and the defense would have cross examined the prosecution witnesses about such.  He found no muzzle imprint though and no defense experts who were hired noted any either which is why such was never discussed at trial.

Fowler decided in HIS opinion the wound described reflected a muzzle imprint though he never even examined the wound. What did he offer to support his opinion? Nothing it was just his unsupported opinion that it was a muzzle imprint and thus by implication Vanezis was wrong about the rings being powder burns.

unless he could prove it was a muzzle imprint though and he could not it was just speculation on his part- there was nothing further to evaluate as to what a muzzle imprint would look like if the moderate were and were not attached.

The smack down was severe and that is why the defense won't publish the CCRC decisions and I don't blame them.  With it hidden propagandists will continue to raise claims already rejected with the pretense they were valid.
 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline David1819

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #437 on: February 08, 2015, 09:15:PM »

Experts make mistakes in their own field and also by incorrectly assessing the facts. 
 

Yes that is why you have peer review. The report from the US was not peer reviewed once but twice!

I deal with experts for a living and have shown up my fair share. 
Most recently I tore apart an insurance company's expert who claimed a wall bowed because of earth movement.

Brick work and masonry is much more a simple than forensic pathology. Its an insurance companies 'expert's job that is to help ensure his employer does not have to pay up. What you do for a living I can only take your word for it.


autopsy report to see what it actually says and one can see quite clearly it doesn't describe a muzzle imprint being found let alone detailing the size which is what David asserted the autopsy report had in it. 


No, I simply mentioned the size of the wounds and that they where contact wounds. Taking my words out of context to support your claims will do you no favours.


The smack down was severe and that is why the defense won't publish the CCRC decisions and I don't blame them.   

Can you please tell me where you got the above information from? Its not the first time I have asked and you have not answered me


Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: June Bamber, did not attend bible class evening before she was killed...
« Reply #438 on: February 08, 2015, 11:12:PM »
Yes that is why you have peer review. The report from the US was not peer reviewed once but twice!

All peer reviewed means is they PAID someone to read it and say they think it sounds good and agree.  Of course they are going to say that for money.  Their unsupported opinions don't mean squat what matters is what they can PROVE.

You try to prove a coroner misidentified a muzzle imprint as bullet abrasions by examining the body and making your own independent assessment describing exactly why you think it is something else providing any evidence you can to back it up.  The only other way is to have very high quality closeup photos along with other evidence such as measurements and details observed by someone who inspected the body visually and then explaining in detail what the items are and offering the proof that can be had.

Reading a report and saying based on the report you think the coroner might have observed a muzzle imprint though they think it was just a bullet abrasion is worthless speculation.

It would be like in My Cousin Vinny if Mona Lisa Vito had simply read the testimony of the prosecution expert on the tires and then said she thought he observed something different than he said.  That is worthless and offers her no basis to provide a different assessment.  She had to look at the tire tracks herself and on the basis of such she noticed the tire tracks were made by a car that had an independent rear suspension and posit traction.  She didn't decide such features existed by just reading an assessment form the expert that stated otherwise. Moreover the other expert ended up agreeing with her that the marks could only be made by a car with an independent rear suspension and posit traction.

No one has shown anything to Vanezis that would get him to change his assessment that he saw a bullet abrasion ring around the wound.  Fowler just made some wild speculation about that Vanezis observed something different than he thought he observed nothing more.  He offered no evidence to establish such.   


Brick work and masonry is much more a simple than forensic pathology. Its an insurance companies 'expert's job that is to help ensure his employer does not have to pay up. What you do for a living I can only take your word for it.

The point was that experts make mistakes so you can't just use an unsupported claim form an expert they must provide evidence that proves their assertions. 

No, I simply mentioned the size of the wounds and that they where contact wounds. Taking my words out of context to support your claims will do you no favours.

It looks to me like you asserted the measurements were the size of the abrasion rings:

"Abrasion rings on both wounds being 3/16 of an inch wide the other 1/4 of an inch wide is consistent with the end the rifle with the moderator removed."

The truth is that Fowler doesn't know how big the abrasion rings were because Vanezis didn't record it in his report.  Vanezis described bullet abrasion rings in his report which Fowler decided amounted to a barrel imprint ring though he had no basis to misinterpret Vanezis words in such manner and worse he had no idea of size so even if Vanezis has said it was a barrel imprint Fowler still would have no way to assert the size matches the barrel without the moderator.


Can you please tell me where you got the above information from? Its not the first time I have asked and you have not answered me

Which information, be specific about what you want to know.  Are you asking about Fowler's claims?  His claims were reported in part to the press:

"In my professional opinion, the complex just described of the lower entrance and two abrasions is consistent with the rifle not having a silencer."

Left out was that he said testing would have to be done to see if he was correct.  Which is why the CCRC called the claims speculation.

The CCRC stressed that such speculation did not grapple with other evidence that established Fowler's speculation was wrong.

 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry