Why did Neville make such a very very bad decision ?

[Alias]

an observation . Even if JB had been accurate with his times and not waivered at all, the police were "allowed" to make mistakes , as were Julie and her flatmates - it would not have made a blind bit of difference . Because it would be his word against theirs. And as it appears to me the phone timings were all over the place, the police account - despite station clocks that were wrong and accounts being written down wrong would probably have prevailed.

as none of us KNOW who was telling the truth its a bit pointless arguing about it really.


The main question would be if EP and JM and her friends were persuaded to change the times of the call then why would that be - what would it achieve.
 
Its a bit like the Witham Question - its JB against EP - Why would JB deny it id it happened?

If it did not happen why did EP want it to be recorded that someone made a call to Witham?

Good observations. 

That´s why I never do!

Two erroneous clocks in the mix is a turnoff for me. 

P.S. criminals who plan their crimes ahead, as Jeremy is alleged to have done, often have the timings rehearsed down to minutes, like, 9:42 am (just an example).
That raises red flags - not that someone innocent does not remember exact timings. And as Jan says, the times are all over the place for everyone concerned in this case - everyone, not just Jeremy.

[Mr. Gee]

It's human nature to check the clock/watch if you get a call in the early hours of the morning.

Prove it.

[Mr. Gee]

When people change the times, it makes them look suspicious, this goes for Jeremy too, you surely have to admit that?

So why aren't you suspicious of Mugford, she changed her times as well? And the police, their times were changed. Does't that also sound suspicious ?

[Jan]

It's human nature to check the clock/watch if you get a call in the early hours of the morning.

Caroline - that's sounds a bit like Adam saying everyone always has their answering machine on?

Or generalising about how people behave when grieving?

I never wear a watch and actually turn my alarm clock away from sight because as I wake up in the night quite often I don't want to be reminded of the time.

[Mr. Gee]

Caroline - that's sounds a bit like Adam saying everyone always has their answering machine on?

Or generalising about how people behave when grieving?

I never wear a watch and actually turn my alarm clock away from sight because as I wake up in the night quite often I don't want to be reminded of the time.

I agree Jan, a bit of a sweeping statement. I rather my suggestion is more logical and is demonstrated every time a person makes a statement to the police. I bet around 90% of us could not give a specific time for something they are asked to remember 7 days ago.

[Jan]

Good observations. 

That´s why I never do!

Two erroneous clocks in the mix is a turnoff for me. 

P.S. criminals who plan their crimes ahead, as Jeremy is alleged to have done, often have the timings rehearsed down to minutes, like, 9:42 am (just an example).
That raises red flags - not that someone innocent does not remember exact timings. And as Jan says, the times are all over the place for everyone concerned in this case - everyone, not just Jeremy.

Actually I was thinking the other day - you would have to at least try to get your plan/story correct and some would have written a plan somewhere. And then perhaps memorise and destroy it.

A few posters love to comment how uneducated JB was. I wonder how he would have planned to have answers / timings / stories all sorted.

[Alias]

Caroline - that's sounds a bit like Adam saying everyone always has their answering machine on?

Or generalising about how people behave when grieving?

I never wear a watch and actually turn my alarm clock away from sight because as I wake up in the night quite often I don't want to be reminded of the time.

ME TOO!!! Not that I wake up once I fall asleep, but sometimes it takes hours and HOURS for me to FALL asleep. I DON´T want to be reminded of the time!

[Jan]

I agree Jan, a bit of a sweeping statement. I rather my suggestion is more logical and is demonstrated every time a person makes a statement to the police. I bet around 90% of us could not give a specific time for something they are asked to remember 7 days ago.

I agree . On the two occasions that I had to make statements to the police I immediately made notes after the event because otherwise I would not have remembered the details.

[Adam]

Good observations. 

That´s why I never do!

Two erroneous clocks in the mix is a turnoff for me. 

P.S. criminals who plan their crimes ahead, as Jeremy is alleged to have done, often have the timings rehearsed down to minutes, like, 9:42 am (just an example).
That raises red flags - not that someone innocent does not remember exact timings. And as Jan says, the times are all over the place for everyone concerned in this case - everyone, not just Jeremy.

Jeremy did have the times sorted. Neville phoned and then he rang a police station over 20 miles away. Choosing the ninth best option. That is not a crime.

Several pages of his police interviews have him unsure of whether he called Julie before or after the police. Eventually opting for 'after ringing the police'. Again not a crime.

The problems start decades later with him claiming Neville rang the police. Meaning his timings have been wildly changed to assist his claim.

Neville's 8 word, 5 second call to Jeremy also becomes more weird as Neville was able to spend several minutes ringing the police 16 minutes later. Why ring Jeremy at all for just 5 seconds ?

Neville's call to the police also means Jeremy phoned Julie before the police.

[Jan]

ME TOO!!! Not that I wake up once I fall asleep, but sometimes it takes hours and HOURS for me to FALL asleep. I DON´T want to be reminded of the time!

Alias - just because its worth a try - this is a breathing exercise that is supposed to help

When  want to go to sleep

Breathe in through your nose for the count of 4 seconds
hold your breath for 7 seconds
Breath out through your mouth for 8 seconds .

Apparently if you repeat this for about 5 or 6 times ( or more ) it slows your heart rate and helps you go to sleep. Its harder than it sounds to do it properly!

[Mr. Gee]

Actually I was thinking the other day - you would have to at least try to get your plan/story correct and some would have written a plan somewhere. And then perhaps memorise and destroy it.

A few posters love to comment how uneducated JB was. I wonder how he would have planned to have answers / timings / stories all sorted.

Yes some it appears want the best of both worlds just as long as it makes Jeremy look more guilty. When they say he messed up he is stupid and when he planned the murders to the details accoding to Mugford he is a cunning and intelligent fellow. Here it is again. He apparently changed the times of calls. Why because he didn't plan all the details. It seems to me that this intelligent and cunning murderer who told Mugford his entire plan. Ommitted several things, including getting his timing right?
Why would he? It certainly appears to me that all these mistakes are the proof that he is an innocent man? And yet at the same time we are asked to accept on face value the mistakes of the police in their communications and Mugfords changing her times 3 times.

[Jan]

Jeremy did have the times sorted. Neville phoned and then he rang a police station over 20 miles away. Choosing the ninth best option. That is not a crime.

Several pages of his WS have him unsure of whether he called Julie before or after the police. Eventually opting for 'after ringing the police'. Again not a crime.

The problems start decades later with him claiming Neville rang the police. Meaning his timings have been wildly changed to assist his claim.

Neville's 8 word, 5 second call to Jeremy also becomes more weird as Neville was able to spend several minutes ringing the police 16 minutes later. Why ring Jeremy at all for just 5 seconds ?

Neville's call to the police also means Jeremy phoned Julie before the police.

If you were innocent and you suddenly I think you too would grab on to the chance that the call had been made - or even if you were guilty and wanted release to be honest .

IF Jb is innocent he does not know if the call happened or not does he? So he has to cling on to any chance .

Its like the silencer - he does not KNOW what the truth is if he is innocent.

He does not KNOW what happened when the raid team went in.

So to criticise grabbing on to any chance of proving his case is just human nature.

[Alias]

Alias - just because its worth a try - this is a breathing exercise that is supposed to help

When  want to go to sleep

Breathe in through your nose for the count of 4 seconds
hold your breath for 7 seconds
Breath out through your mouth for 8 seconds .

Apparently if you repeat this for about 5 or 6 times ( or more ) it slows your heart rate and helps you go to sleep. Its harder than it sounds to do it properly!

Thanks, I will try it. I have had problems falling asleep since I was SIX MONTHS OLD! Once I sleep, it is hard to wake up on the other hand. What a mess! 
Sorry for being off topic.

[lookout]

 I don't know about Jeremy having " lied ",AE actually admitted in her COLP statement that she'd made false statements earlier ! So would I be justified in calling her a liar too ??

[Caroline]

Caroline - that's sounds a bit like Adam saying everyone always has their answering machine on?

Or generalising about how people behave when grieving?

I never wear a watch and actually turn my alarm clock away from sight because as I wake up in the night quite often I don't want to be reminded of the time.

So you wouldn't look at the time at all?