Miscellaneous Notes...

[maggie]

Anti-depressants and homicidal ideation

Rusty and his birth family came to believe that a combination of antidepressants improperly prescribed by Dr. Saeed in the days before the tragedy was responsible for Andrea's violent, psychotic behavior.[41][42] According to Dr. Moira Dolan, executive director of the Medical Accountability Network, "homicidal ideation" was added to the warning label of the antidepressant drug Effexor as a rare adverse event, in 2005. Yates, she said, had been taking 450 mg, twice the recommended maximum dose, for a month before killing her children. Dr. Dolan reviewed her medical record at the request of Rusty.[43]

Dr. Lucy Puryear, an expert witness hired by Yates' defense team, countered their contention regarding the administration of her antidepressants, saying the dosages prescribed by Dr. Saeed are not uncommon in practice and had nothing at all to do with her reemergent psychosis. She suggested rather that her psychosis returned as a result of the Haldol having been discontinued by her doctor two weeks earlier.[41] The oral form of haloperidol (Haldol) takes 4–6 days after discontinuation to reach a terminal plasma level of under 1.5%—a medical standard for "complete" elimination of a drug from the body

Very interesting imo

[lookout]

This does have similarities to Sheila. Patients are at their most dangerous point when such medication has been stopped/reduced.

[scipio_usmc]

Anti-depressants and homicidal ideation

Rusty and his birth family came to believe that a combination of antidepressants improperly prescribed by Dr. Saeed in the days before the tragedy was responsible for Andrea's violent, psychotic behavior.[41][42] According to Dr. Moira Dolan, executive director of the Medical Accountability Network, "homicidal ideation" was added to the warning label of the antidepressant drug Effexor as a rare adverse event, in 2005. Yates, she said, had been taking 450 mg, twice the recommended maximum dose, for a month before killing her children. Dr. Dolan reviewed her medical record at the request of Rusty.[43]

Dr. Lucy Puryear, an expert witness hired by Yates' defense team, countered their contention regarding the administration of her antidepressants, saying the dosages prescribed by Dr. Saeed are not uncommon in practice and had nothing at all to do with her reemergent psychosis. She suggested rather that her psychosis returned as a result of the Haldol having been discontinued by her doctor two weeks earlier.[41] The oral form of haloperidol (Haldol) takes 4–6 days after discontinuation to reach a terminal plasma level of under 1.5%—a medical standard for "complete" elimination of a drug from the body

Yates stopped getting Haldol injections in late 1999.  Her insurance company didn't want to pay for it anymore.  After the birth of her 5th child she went downhill and for a period of 1 month she was orally being given 2mg of Haldol at night and 2mg in the morning.  This was discontinued because the doctor didn't view her as psychotic.  Both prior to, during and after the month she was orally on Haldol she was on Effexor XR and Remeron which is a dangerous combo.  The dose of Remeron was increased from 45mg to 60mg and the dose of Remeron decreased from 450mg to 300mg. 

While Sheila showed no signs of getting worse the month before the murders, Yates did show such signs including exhibiting signs of severe depression.  Furthermore she had made suicidal attempts in he past. 

There isn't any comparison at all to Yates situation and that of Sheila.   

[Alias]

 Question from: Cita: Dr.Deltito having been on an antidepressant and gone off "cold turkey" -- not advised :-) I know, and mine was only Paxil-- my question is: considering the "heavy drugs" that Andrea was on, could that sudden withdrawal cause a spiral such as she had?

Dr. Joseph Deltito: Yes It is possible that she would've had a gentler course if whatever medicine she was on was either maintained or withdrawn more slowly.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/law/12/11/court.archive.yates9/

[scipio_usmc]

Question from: Cita: Dr.Deltito having been on an antidepressant and gone off "cold turkey" -- not advised :-) I know, and mine was only Paxil-- my question is: considering the "heavy drugs" that Andrea was on, could that sudden withdrawal cause a spiral such as she had?

Dr. Joseph Deltito: Yes It is possible that she would've had a gentler course if whatever medicine she was on was either maintained or withdrawn more slowly.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/law/12/11/court.archive.yates9/

Haldol isn't an anti-depressant.  It is an anti-psychotic.  The testimony at trial was her doctor was essentially that have didn't see signs she was psychotic and thus that the Haldol wasn't needed.  She remained on her anti-depressants though he adjusted the dosages near the murders and the mix is not considered a good one.  The dosage of 1 was increased higher than is considered safe while the other was cut by a much larger margin than was considered advisable.   She tried to kill herself in the past which made matters worse.  She was being seen on a regular basis because of her condition was one that was at risk.

[Alias]

Everywhere I look it says that Andrea Yates was in Haloperidol withdrawal - which can be very severe. "Haloperidol is also known as Haldol and can cause one of the worst withdrawal processes known to man."

[lookout]

 So so true,Alias.It's lethal.

[scipio_usmc]

Everywhere I look it says that Andrea Yates was in Haloperidol withdrawal - which can be very severe. "Haloperidol is also known as Haldol and can cause one of the worst withdrawal processes known to man."

Withdrawal wasn't the problem she was only on it for a month.  Her other medications were the problem.   Some think that if she remained on the Haldol it would have helped because they think she was psychotic and think it would have kept her at bay.  Others don't think she was psychotic just acted because of her depression.  The lack of Haldol not withdrawal was the biggest problem alleged in the complaint against the doctor. 

But in the past while on Haldol she tried killing herself. Moreover, she had prepared to kill her kids in the past though her husband came home and found the tub full before she had the chance.  She could not handle the death of her father it had a very bad effect on her and that was used by the defense to establish she was crazy.  These efforts failed at her first trial.  She was extremely fortunate that a prosecution expert made a mistake and suggested there was a law and order episode like this and maybe she was faking insanity to get off.  He merged two episodes together by accident.  That mistake allowed a new trial so a second bite at the apple and that jury believed she was crazy.

[lookout]

June was still receiving treatment on the 6th of August for the bout of depression which marred her life from 3 years prior after the loss Neville's mother in a nursing home.

Would anyone know anything about the " treatment " that June had been receiving ? Medication,etc. ?

Neville had more than his fare share of burdens to bear at that time with both ( warring ) women as well as running the farm and seeing to the harvest at that time of the year. His usual strength and stamina would have been at an all-time low,hence his inability to fend off his daughter,who'd turned against her father for supporting/agreeing with his ill wife and not the daughter who'd always relied on her dad supporting her. There was bound to be ructions before long,and in Sheila's mind,why not then while they were all there ? 

[lookout]

 When you think back,after Jeremy was arrested, it was a few days before he engaged a solicitor,as he thought that what he had to say to EP would be taken in good faith knowing that he was telling them the truth.
Anyone planning a murder makes doubly sure that a solicitor is present before a word is said,normally,in the event that they're caught ! Jeremy had no fear of being " caught " because he knew in himself that he was in the clear.
 MOST people,guilty or not,engage a solicitor .
No doubt,because at the first arrest,when no solicitor had been present,and soon after the tragedy,Jeremy's statement would have been cobbled together ( edited ) afterwards when it was typed out. Whether Jeremy made notes afterwards I don't know,but he should have done under the circumstances,afterall,EVERYONE else had done.! Talk about being naïve.Jeremy had a lot to learn.

[lookout]

No allowances were made by EP on the state of mind that Jeremy must have been in.No offer of assistance,nor the help of a solicitor. How can anyone function properly through shock/trauma and valium,for the length of time it took in questioning him about times,etc  after losing all his family ?

[lookout]

 This man is innocent,and can't get past all the red-tape and bureaucracy that the system is riddled with.

[lookout]

According to Vanezis,Sheila suffered a cardiac arrest after the first shot. ? This would have accounted for the congestion which was found to be in her lungs.
This doesn't make sense because Sheila would then have died before the second shot was administered.?
Which would confirm what I've said,in that Sheila hadn't killed herself,but someone did.The first I'd reckoned was an " accidental " shot while struggling between two people in trying to get the rifle.

This is where Vanezis contradicted himself by saying that Sheila would/could have moved around for a short while after the first shot,yet in the next breath,he says that she suffered a cardiac arrest ?

[lookout]

 When JM was interviewed,IF she'd have thought/known that Jeremy committed the murders,why did she bother mentioning MM ??

[scipio_usmc]

When JM was interviewed,IF she'd have thought/known that Jeremy committed the murders,why did she bother mentioning MM ??

Because she initially believed Jeremy's claims that MM was involved and even if she hadn't she was supposed to be telling police everything Jeremy had told her.