Author Topic: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)  (Read 13581 times)

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Offline nugnug

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2014, 01:10:PM »
are you going to record it dan.

Offline Dan Straker

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2014, 11:23:PM »
are you going to record it dan.
nugnug

Maybe sometime later, who knows! But just like Batman, I generally prefer to remain inconspicuous.

Offline Dan Straker

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2014, 11:28:PM »
Thanks for some nice comments.

I was kind of expecting somebody pro guilt to say something like “Writing a song is all very well, but Bamber gets no sympathy from me, because the evidence against him is overwhelming.”

I don't have the detailed knowledge of the case of some people at this forum, but I know that there were really only two pieces of evidence used against him and neither of them holds up. They are the silencer evidence and Julie Mugford's testimony. The rest is all just psychological hogwash with people saying things like “Nevill Bamber would never have  phoned Jeremy blah blah blah...”

Julie Mugford's story of Bamber's confession contains that stuff about a bible on Sheila's chest and her body being on the bed next to that of June, a story which conflicts with the official police version. They say that they found Sheila's body on the floor. That part of her statement repeats exactly what that policeman told Ann Eaton.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3458.msg136234.html#msg136234

After that, how could the judge have even taken her seriously as a witness. He should have told the jury to disregard her evidence instead of telling them there was a problem with the idea that Nevill phoned the police. I don't see any problem with it, but I can't understand how people can believe Julie Mugford.

The silencer evidence is all based on the assumption that the silencer was used.  Five experts in Arizona said they don't think it was. The case is really just grotesque.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 12:18:AM by Dan Straker »

Offline Caroline

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2014, 01:17:AM »
Thanks for some nice comments.

I was kind of expecting somebody pro guilt to say something like “Writing a song is all very well, but Bamber gets no sympathy from me, because the evidence against him is overwhelming.”

I don't have the detailed knowledge of the case of some people at this forum, but I know that there were really only two pieces of evidence used against him and neither of them holds up. They are the silencer evidence and Julie Mugford's testimony. The rest is all just psychological hogwash with people saying things like “Nevill Bamber would never have  phoned Jeremy blah blah blah...”

Julie Mugford's story of Bamber's confession contains that stuff about a bible on Sheila's chest and her body being on the bed next to that of June, a story which conflicts with the official police version. They say that they found Sheila's body on the floor. That part of her statement repeats exactly what that policeman told Ann Eaton.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3458.msg136234.html#msg136234

After that, how could the judge have even taken her seriously as a witness. He should have told the jury to disregard her evidence instead of telling them there was a problem with the idea that Nevill phoned the police. I don't see any problem with it, but I can't understand how people can believe Julie Mugford.

The silencer evidence is all based on the assumption that the silencer was used.  Five experts in Arizona said they don't think it was. The case is really just grotesque.

Not sure what you mean by 'There was a problem that Nevill phoned the police'?
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Gemma

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2014, 02:34:AM »
Not sure what you mean by 'There was a problem that Nevill phoned the police'?

The quotation is incorrect, Caroline. As it stands it seems to make no sense at all.  You understand perfectly well what Dan's point is and it is one which I for one agree with.

I don't have a problem with the idea that Nevill phoned Jeremy. It's not ridiculous at all. You are one of those who say that you have a problem with it. You have said so on a number of occasions, yet without giving any good reasons for holding that view.





Offline Caroline

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2014, 02:53:AM »
The quotation is incorrect, Caroline. As it stands it seems to make no sense at all.  You understand perfectly well what Dan's point is and it is one which I for one agree with.

I don't have a problem with the idea that Nevill phoned Jeremy. It's not ridiculous at all. You are one of those who say that you have a problem with it. You have said so on a number of occasions, yet without giving any good reasons for holding that view.

Oh here we go again  ::) another smart arse intent on trying to catch out the nasty 'guiltier'. Listen, I'm really tired of people trying to second guess me, when I ask a question, it's because I want to KNOW the answer - I didn't ask you so you can't answer what someone else is saying. If you can't be bothered to read posts properly, I'm really not interested in you opinion. I have given MANY reasons why the phone call from Nevill didn't happen, but you sticking your fingers in your ears and singing 'la, la' is possibly getting in your way!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 03:11:AM by Caroline »
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Caroline

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2014, 03:09:AM »
Oh and .....

Jeremy said he received a call from Nevill at 03:10 but is now saying he called the police at 03:36 – if that is the case, what was he doing for 26 minutes?  Why would PC West and Malcolm Bonnett lie when in the initial stages of the investigation when it was believed that Sheila was responsible? And why would Taff Jones NOT have told the relatives he had PROOF that Sheila was responsible? Unless you can answer these questions with a realistic response – don't tell me I have 'no good reason' – Simply stating that will bring you no credibility!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 03:52:AM by Zoso »
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Gemma

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2014, 04:13:AM »
Oh and .....

Jeremy said he received a call from Nevill at 03:10 but is now saying he called the police at 03:36 – if that is the case, what was he doing for 26 minutes?  Why would PC West and Malcolm Bonnett lie when in the initial stages of the investigation when it was believed that Sheila was responsible? And why would Taff Jones NOT have told the relatives he had PROOF that Sheila was responsible? Unless you can answer these questions with a realistic response – don't tell me I have 'no good reason' – Simply stating that will bring you no credibility!

Jeremy may have simply been mistaken about the time of Nevill's call and found himself corrected by the police timings later on. You can't read much into that.

On the other hand I'll grant you that it is worth considering the question of why Taff Jones didn't tell Ann Eaton he knew that Sheila was responsible to save himself trouble. I can give two possible reasons why not.

Firstly, at that time he did not feel threatened with the sack. He was a proud man. It's quite possible that that he didn't feel inclined to explain anything to Ann Eaton, because he merely saw her as a nuisance.

Secondly and more importantly there may have been a cover up in which decisions were made about what to reveal to the public and what not to reveal to them. When such decisions are taken, people simply follow orders. It's naïve to think that DCI Jones would have taken Robert Boutflour aside and said to him something along the lines of...

“Well I'll tell you what really happened on condition you promise not to reveal it to anybody.”

“We know that Sheila did it, but I have to admit that it was our men who stage managed her body in the bedroom.”

“Sheila was originally found downstairs but regained consciousness  and moved upstairs and died on the bed having put a bible on her chest."

"When she was on the bed it was obvious that she had not shot herself in that position, so our men just put the body on the floor to make it look like she's committed suicide upstairs."

"When they were positioning the rifle on her the gun accidentally fired"

Something like that might have happened and the theory has  evidence to support it. 

No high ranking police officer would even consider revealing such information and compromising the position of the police in that way. So it makes perfect sense that the police would refrain from telling the relatives the whole truth. Taff Jones may not have had the option of simply explaining things to the relatives to get them off his back. It just may not have been as simple as that.


« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 05:37:AM by Gemma »

Offline Adam

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2014, 04:21:AM »
The quotation is incorrect, Caroline. As it stands it seems to make no sense at all.  You understand perfectly well what Dan's point is and it is one which I for one agree with.

I don't have a problem with the idea that Nevill phoned Jeremy. It's not ridiculous at all. You are one of those who say that you have a problem with it. You have said so on a number of occasions, yet without giving any good reasons for holding that view.

What do you think Sheila was doing when Neville made his 'mysterious' phone call to Jeremy ?

There are 40 reasons why Neville would not phone Jeremy. I will find the thread.

There is also a thread on Taff Jones. I will find that to.

Bamber was another 'Inheritance killer'.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Gemma

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2014, 04:33:AM »
What do you think Sheila was doing when Neville made his 'mysterious' phone call to Jeremy ?

There are 40 reasons why Neville would not phone Jeremy. I will find the thread.

There is also a thread on Taff Jones. I will find that to.

Bamber was another 'Inheritance killer'.

From what Jeremy says Nevill told him, it would appear that Sheila had just gone upstairs with the gun. I agree with you that the idea that she was sitting in a trance next to Nevill while he spoke on the phone is just silly. You were quite right in saying that if that had happened, he would easily have disarmed her.

« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 04:37:AM by Gemma »

Offline Adam

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2014, 05:09:AM »
From what Jeremy says Nevill told him, it would appear that Sheila had just gone upstairs with the gun. I agree with you that the idea that she was sitting in a trance next to Nevill while he spoke on the phone is just silly. You were quite right in saying that if that had happened, he would easily have disarmed her.

So she had 'gone crazy' and was upstairs with a fully loaded rifle. With asleep women and children. At 3am.

Why did Neville ring Jeremy ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2014, 08:42:AM »
What do you think Sheila was doing when Neville made his 'mysterious' phone call to Jeremy ?

There are 40 reasons why Neville would not phone Jeremy. I will find the thread.

There is also a thread on Taff Jones. I will find that to.

Bamber was another 'Inheritance killer'.
We have given you answers to that question Adam. Whether you choose either to believe our logical answers or to poohpooh them is entirely your privilege. But please do not treat us as being stupid just because our views do not fit into your own fantasy scenario.

Mr. Gee

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2014, 08:43:AM »
Oh here we go again  ::) another smart arse intent on trying to catch out the nasty 'guiltier'. Listen, I'm really tired of people trying to second guess me, when I ask a question, it's because I want to KNOW the answer - I didn't ask you so you can't answer what someone else is saying. If you can't be bothered to read posts properly, I'm really not interested in you opinion. I have given MANY reasons why the phone call from Nevill didn't happen, but you sticking your fingers in your ears and singing 'la, la' is possibly getting in your way!
That's not a picture of you Caroline. You're far better looking than that. ;D

Mr. Gee

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2014, 08:45:AM »
From what Jeremy says Nevill told him, it would appear that Sheila had just gone upstairs with the gun. I agree with you that the idea that she was sitting in a trance next to Nevill while he spoke on the phone is just silly. You were quite right in saying that if that had happened, he would easily have disarmed her.
That is what I believe as well. In fact from the telephone call from Nevill to Jeremy (allegedly) the whole thing unfolded very quickly.

Offline Adam

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Re: Song For Jeremy Bamber (First version)
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2014, 10:03:AM »
We have given you answers to that question Adam. Whether you choose either to believe our logical answers or to poohpooh them is entirely your privilege. But please do not treat us as being stupid just because our views do not fit into your own fantasy scenario.

You did give me an answer. I was asking Gemma.

She answered but did not answer why.

With a 'gone crazy' Sheila upstairs with a loaded rifle & three sleeping women/children at 3am, Neville decided the best thing to do was ring Jeremy. Why ?

As AE said he could have just picked up a kitchen chair, taken it upstairs and charged her.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.