The two bullets in Sheila debate :

[Alias]

Box or book here: (+ a number of other items)


But not here:

[Patti]

yes I know which scenario I follow.

I think we can not assume anything. We can not assume she fired all the shots into the twins at once . Because we have to be careful not to necessarily apply logic to her actions - she may have only shot them once each before the next attack. I know if there was only one gun used she would have had to re-load but it may not have been at a point that she was under pressure?

You may well be right Jan. Although,  It has been said that some of bullets were fired in succession to one of the children as it formed an arch.  The other thing i have noticed with the bullets though, is this.

[lookout]

 The box had contained 10 bullets.

[Jan]

You may well be right Jan. Although,  It has been said that some of bullets were fired in succession to one of the children as it formed an arch.  The other thing i have noticed with the bullets though, is this.

sorry was there a further comment to come on that ?

[Patti]

sorry was there a further comment to come on that ?

Having a blond moment Jan. 

Yes there was. If you notice the shots appears to be doubled. Look closely at the shots to NB. Did the weapon malfunction and produce two shots at a time.

If you look at June this does not happen, but if you look at the children it does. It might be nothing...just though I would mention it.   

[lookout]

What is shots ?

[Patti]

What is shots ?

I mean shots 

[lookout]

I mean shots 

Aww yes,I know. Thanks for the use of your rubber.

[Patti]

Aww yes,I know. Thanks for the use of your rubber.

Good job I have one hahahahaha 

[Jan]

Having a blond moment Jan. 

Yes there was. If you notice the shots appears to be doubled. Look closely at the shots to NB. Did the weapon malfunction and produce two shots at a time.

If you look at June this does not happen, but if you look at the children it does. It might be nothing...just though I would mention it.   

Yes I think that was mentioned by someone before in respect of the shots to Sheila.Could it have just happened by accident one after the other.

Also had not really noticed the angles either they are interesting

[lookout]

That empty box of bullets,if that's what it is there,was found in the main bedroom. So like the rifle pictured in the landing space between rooms,both items found their way into the main bedroom ??

[Patti]

Yes I think that was mentioned by someone before in respect of the shots to Sheila.Could it have just happened by accident one after the other.

Also had not really noticed the angles either they are interesting

I thought it might have Jan at one time in Sheila's case, but when I took into consideration that the blood flowed onto her nightie which flows to right, which suggests she may have been on her right side as she was sat down, I changed my mind about the the 2nd shot going off in a accident..She obviously brought her right arm/hand up to her neck as the blood spilled down her arm, so she must have been in a sitting position. The 2nd shot was not a straight shot either according to the diagrams it comes from the right at an angle.  If she was laying down at the time she received that then the trigger would more likely to pointing upwards towards the ceiling...which corresponds with the shell case between Sheila and the bed...with the shell ejecting from the right of the rifle...Folk think I'm balmy Jan....but I know what I mean....

[lookout]

Good job I have one hahahahaha 

If you hadn't have had one,you could have used the girls' behind. Take that how you wish.

[Adam]

The question is, would Jeremy have had the knowledge that multiple shot suicides do ocurr, and would he have had the NERVE to just go on and stage it as a suicide? Call the police with a made up story that Nevill had called him, thus painting himself into a corner. Also carelessly putting the silencer with blood, paint and hair on it in the cupboard further incriminating himself.

Those things do not add up for me.

If Jeremy had to shoot Sheila twice for her to die, his best option would not have been going on with his plan of staging it as a suicide. It would logically hav been to either stage a break-in, or simply just going out the door, leaving it open - and not call the police at all.

There are threads showing his best option was to create the siege situation where he could spend hours insinuating Sheila.

For a random stranger to break into a locked remote farm house, massacre men, women and children & then leave without taking anything would just point the finger straight at Jeremy. Especially as he would be first at WHF in the morning. Once he became a suspect he could not mention Sheila's illness.

[Adam]

Hi Jan. If she shot the twins first then she would have had to reload. 9 shots? leaving a possible 2 left if the magazine was full.  She had no pockets and I think it would be unlikely that she carried them in her spare hand. 

Neville could have been woken at that point though and had followed Sheila back down stairs completely  unaware that the children had been shot.  He could have had an argument with Sheila who had the rifle already in her hands and was refusing to give that rifle up. He then called Jeremy for help this angered her like it did when Freddie phoned for help and she cut him off and ran upstairs with the rifle and he raced after her and just plonked the phone down leaving it engaged.  She could have then fired at her mother and then at her father as he entered the bedroom. NB then turned round to get downstairs and she raced past him to reload, but before she could fully load they had a scuffle at the sink....Just my theories Jan......could be totally wrong...But it might be better than this one.

Jeremy put on his wetsuit and peddled through the back wacks to WHF.  He then entered the house via the downstairs bathroom window. He collected the rifle with silencer from the den or a hidden place somewhere else in the house and placed the fully loaded magazine into it, or it could have already been in.  He crept upstairs entered the children's room and fired 9 shots.  He then crept downstairs to reload thus giving him 11 more bullets to fire.  He then entered the main bedroom and shot his mother several times, then shot his father as he managed to get out of bed and into a standing position. Jeremy then managed to fire two shots to Neville's jaw. (important point coming up) NB then had to get passed Jeremy so that he could shot him from the back for the shots to his shoulder and arm were fired when NB had his back to the shooter.  JB then rushed past him shoving NB towards the wall where there were blood trace evidence. He got to the kitchen NB tried to get the rifle of him they had this almighty fight at the kitchen sink. NB then had 4 more shoots and was beaten over the head with the rifle. JB then went back upstairs woke Sheila up and led her to the main bedroom she was told to lie down and he shot her twice.  He then showered in his wetsuit, phoned home, swapped the phones placed the silencer back into the cupboard, went back into the kitchen bolted the kitchen door then climbed out of the kitchen window because he knew how to lock it. He ten peddled home via the sea wall and got out of the suit hung it up. The invented a call from his father.

Which sounds the most far fetched?

Sorry about the length of this post Jan....I'm not a chatter box in real life. 

So a fully fit Neville was unable to get the rifle off Sheila ? So Jeremy was phoned, rather than June.

Neville and June did not hear her shoot the twins eight times beforehand. Although Jeremy said the rifle did not have a silencer on.

If Sheila then shot Neville upstairs with the remaining bullets, after the twins had been shot,  he would have received only three bullets. June continuing to sleep through it all.

The prosecution's version of events is much more straight forward and plausible. Everything fits. 

I agree he did not shoot the twins first,  he went straight to the main bedroom emptying the rifle into June & Neville in/by the bed. The twins sleeping through it all as the rifle had the silencer on.