Author Topic: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...  (Read 26798 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #150 on: December 11, 2014, 09:45:PM »
Negligee.

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #151 on: December 11, 2014, 10:30:PM »

Mike, I have NO idea what it is that you mean by "the second part of her nightie set (light blue petticoat)". The description of petticoat denotes an under garment -the part worn next to the skin- which if it had been "heavily stained with her own blood and blood from other victims" so too would have been the over garment which would have been described as a negligee, front opening all the way through and secured by means of buttons or ties. This does not describe the garment that Sheila was wearing in the photos. I fail to see that if she'd been shot in the neck once whilst downstairs she'd have managed to not only get herself upstairs but change her nightdress without causing further bleeding, not to mention the pain. There is also the question of what she did with the bloodied garment Also to bear in mind is that as she was only at the farm for a few days, she'd hardly have packed a wardrobe of nightwear.

I am really struggling to come to terms with what you appear to be suggesting, that from the word GO police -to cover their own bumbling incompetency which could have been explained away and accepted- completely disregarded that they had a ready made perpetrator and started thinking about who they could frame for it, albeit that they were innocent.


This is where I struggle too April. If they had something to hide, changing from Sheila to Jeremy would make it more likely not less, that the 'whatever' would be discovered (although I don't believe there was such an incident - sorry!).
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Gemma

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #152 on: December 11, 2014, 10:31:PM »

I've already said what I think in respect to how AE's confusion occurred re: 'Sheila on the left side of the bed'  - simply the word 'floor' was omitted and assumptions were made.

Caroline

Ann Eaton was not confused at all and her note is quite unambiguous and, as Mr Gee points out, she said the same in court, although at first she pretended to think that Julie Mugford had told her (until confronted with the note!). She says that the policeman told her that Sheila's body was on the bed next to June with the rifle between them. You know that perfectly well. Mr Gee drew your attention to that inaccuracy, yet you have repeated it again, just now.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5797.msg260763.html#msg260763

By the way, I did not post with the intention of discussing your change of position, but because I had a question for Mike.  You didn't have to get involved if you didn't want to. On the other hand, I find it hard to ignore misrepresentation.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 10:34:PM by Gemma »

Offline Caroline

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 27076
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #153 on: December 11, 2014, 11:07:PM »
Caroline

Ann Eaton was not confused at all and her note is quite unambiguous and, as Mr Gee points out, she said the same in court, although at first she pretended to think that Julie Mugford had told her (until confronted with the note!). She says that the policeman told her that Sheila's body was on the bed next to June with the rifle between them. You know that perfectly well. Mr Gee drew your attention to that inaccuracy, yet you have repeated it again, just now.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5797.msg260763.html#msg260763

By the way, I did not post with the intention of discussing your change of position, but because I had a question for Mike.  You didn't have to get involved if you didn't want to. On the other hand, I find it hard to ignore misrepresentation.

I know what AE stated in court and in her statement. However, we have no idea if the officer in question saw Sheila's body or if he was repeating details second hand from someone else - because we have no idea who the officer was. Therefore her description of the scene is simply an interpretation of what she was told by 'someone' unknown. There is no blood on the bed on the side Sheila is supposed to have been laying and it is obvious that she was shot where she was discovered (on the floor) due to the blood pool on the carpet.

I think misrepresentation is weaving in a second hand comment from someone who didn't witness the scene.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 11:25:PM by Caroline »
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Gemma

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 40
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #154 on: December 11, 2014, 11:13:PM »
Out of interest do you feel that because the family were so persistant in taking thier beliefs about the case "higher up the chain" that it came to a point where the police were backed into a corner regarding the investigation?
Hi Jan

I think that there is overwhelming evidence of a cover up even if we don't know precisely what was covered up. So that even if we keep an open mind as to why there are reports of two bodies being found downstairs and a whole series of other discrepancies such as those Reader points out, concerning the phone calls to West and Bonnet, there is obviously something they, the police, don't want us to know, and if the relatives knew what it was, the police were put in a vulnerable position.

Add to that the fact that Robert Boutflour had connections with high ranking policemen and he was convinced that Jeremy was guilty.


« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 11:19:PM by Gemma »

Offline nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 17252
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #155 on: December 12, 2014, 01:16:AM »
well i dont think they woud hold documents under wraps for all those years if they had nothing to hide.

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #156 on: December 12, 2014, 06:22:AM »
Officially, there was none of Sheila's blood on the bedroom carpet, only spots of her mothers blood all over the place. Additionally, from the available photographs it is not possible to say that there was / is no blood at all on the left hand side of the bed, you can't fully see because of the quilt. Yet to be explained is the presence of the huge bloodstain on the rear of Sheila's nightie, which did not transfer itself onto the carpet or rug directly beneath where police staged her body. What I wish to say about that /this, is that if the bloodstain in question was dried enough by the time her body was placed there, there is also a good chance that by the time Sheila was on tge bed, the same huge bloodstain on the rear of her nightdress may also have been dry. If it was dry, where could Sheila have been laying to get that huge bloodstain on the rear of her nightie, which did not get transferred onto the rug or the carpet beneath her body, or as the case may be get transferred onto the bed beneath where she had been laying? The police case is quite specific and clear, they maintain that there was only June Bambers blood on the bedroom carpet, no blood from any of the two child victims, no blood from Ralph Bamber who was suppisedky shot four times in the same bedroom, and no blood at all except on Sheila's nightie at the front. So, we are left with a mysterious bloodstain on the rear of Sheila's nightie, which was not duplicated on the carpet or rug where her body ended up by around 10 am, nor replicated on the bed. So, where was Sheila laying, prior to her body being on the bed, and then the carpet?

What must be clear to everyone by now, is that prior to the taking of scene photographs showing two bullet wounds upon Sheila's throat, and the rifle so very conveniently positioned along the center of her body, her right hand placed around the trigger mechanism, muzzle of rifle barrel resting neatly in the area of her throat, as if someone wanted us to think that this must have been the weapon which had fired both of these shots, and an overturned bible next to her body hiding a large pool of wet blood, the direction of blood flow upin Sheila's neck, running from the corners of her mouth, nostril, and back into the socket of her left eye, is that Sheila must have been in a different position to that shown in photographs taken from around 10 O'clock onwards, in order for the triangular bloodstain on the front upper right of her nightie to materialise. That bloidstain ciuld not possibly have got there in that position on the front upper right hand side of her body, with her laid flat on her back, there where she was photographed by police after 10 O'clock. SHE WAS LAID ON HER RIGHT SIDE at some point beforehand. This factor is there priblematic for the police who are responsible for staging Sheila's body on the bedroom floor, for staging the rifle on her body, placing her hands on the gun, and hiding tell rale bloodstains on the bedroom carpet by placing a bible on top of ut ti try and deceive people into thinking that Sheila had been found as shown in the photographic evidence taken after 10am...

The contradictions in bloodflow evidence shown upon Sheila's face, throat, arm, hand and nightdress clearly shows that her body was staged. It could not have been staged by anyone other than the police...

CPR was initially administered to Sheila prior to Sheila being photographed on the floor around 10am, and later on, only god knows why? Now, if CPR had been admistered before 10 O'clock, which it surely must have been (according to David Shaws account) how ciuld the rifle have been there on the body whilst all of this was going on? Police put the rifle there on her body after tge initial CPR had been administered, abd set tge scene so as to make ut look kije she had shot herself twice by use if tge same gun, when in actual fact she had been shot by two different weapons...

clearly, somebody tried to stop the second wound beneath her chin from bleeding, with no evidence to indicate anyone had tried to stop blood which had much earlier run from the lower of the two bullet wounds...

Police staged the scene after senior officers had done, or were still doing familiars in the farmhouse, from around 9am, onwards...


« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 12:49:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #157 on: December 12, 2014, 06:57:AM »
Jeremy Bamber could not have shot his sister beneath the chin, killed her, or staged her death scene, as per the police photographs, taken after 10 O'clock. Nobody but the police are responsible for that /this...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #158 on: December 12, 2014, 07:20:AM »
Jeremy did NOT commit this murder. Anyone with half an eye can see how the law has put words into the mouths of the relatives and also the public-----------------because they can !!

Nothing is adding up,hence the discussion. There wouldn't be one if he'd been guilty.

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #159 on: December 13, 2014, 05:32:AM »
Jeremy was sat in police patrol car (CA07) with PS 'Oliver' Saxby, when the news that 'all his family inside whf' were said to be  to have been 'found dead' inside the farmhouse. So 'distressed' was Jeremy upon being told this, that he immediately blurted out his belief that 'armed men who had entered the house' had 'shot' and 'killed them'. Saxby responded by saying that 'the men with guns who had gone into the farmhouse were police officers', and he questioned 'Jeremys complaint', but Jeremy remained steadfast, and added that, 'they must have shot and killed his family'...

Jeremy maintained that polIce must have shot and killed his family when the men with guns had gone into the premises to end the seige. He believed this to be true, because right up to the point where armed men had gone towards the farmhouse with a view to bringing the matter to a conclusion, everyone present at the scene believed that someone, if not everyone inside the large farmhouse, was still alive by that stage. Even PS Saxby had believed someone had still been alive right up to the point when news was given to Jeremy that his family inside whf were all dead...
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 05:48:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #160 on: December 13, 2014, 05:53:AM »
Jeremy was sat in police patrol car (CA07) with PS 'Oliver' Saxby, when the news that 'all his family inside whf' were said to be  to have been 'found dead' inside the farmhouse. So 'distressed' was Jeremy upon being told this, that he immediately blurted out his belief that 'armed men who had entered the house' had 'shot' and 'killed them'. Saxby responded by saying that 'the men with guns who had gone into the farmhouse were police officers', and he questioned 'Jeremys complaint', but Jeremy remained steadfast, and added that, 'they must have shot and killed his family'...

Jeremy maintained that polIce must have shot and killed his family when the men with guns had gone into the premises to end the seige. He believed this to be true, because right up to the point where armed men had gone towards the farmhouse with a view to bringing the matter to a conclusion, everyone present at the scene believed that someone, if not everyone inside the large farmhouse, was still alive by that stage. Even PS Saxby had believed someone had still been alive right up to the point when news was given to Jeremy that his family inside whf were all dead...

The timing of exactly when news of his family's  deaths was broken to Jeremy (by DS 'Stan' Jones) was also a significant event, since DS Jones did not arrive at the scene until just after 9 O'clock that morning...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #161 on: December 13, 2014, 06:15:AM »
So, it took about an hour and a half after police first entered the farmhouse and found the bodies of his family (between 7.37 and 8.10am) for DS 'Stan' Jones, to break the news to Jeremy (about 9.30am). Furthermore, before DS 'Stan' Jones broke this news to Jeremy, he had already been inside the farmhouse and seen Sheila's body on the bed with a single shot in her throat...

Police have failed to explain the reason in the delay of informing Jeremy of all the deaths?

The reason for this initial delay in breaking the news to him, was because the operation inside the farmhouse had dramatically gone pearshaped, with the disappearence of a female (previously believed to have been dead) from the region of the kitchen, ending upstairs on the bed. The dusappearence was first noticed at around 8.15am, when DCI Harris, and DCI Gibbons, in the company of PI Montgomery entered the farmhouse, after a message had been passed to signal the end of the operation with five reported to be dead (two bodies downstairs, the other three bodies upstairs)...
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 12:50:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #162 on: December 13, 2014, 12:51:PM »
To be pondered, is what was happening inside the farmhouse, between 8.10am, and 9.30am...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #163 on: December 13, 2014, 04:10:PM »
To be pondered, is what was happening inside the farmhouse, between 8.10am, and 9.30am...

We know that at 8.15am, that DCI 'George' Harris, DCI 'Terry' Gibbons, along with police Inspector, 'Ivor' Montgomery, all went into the main kitchen, and that by this stage, there were 11 outsiders, inside the farmhouse, with the five victims. At this stage, ACC Peter Simpson requested the DCI Harris, make contact with him from the scene via the land line telephone. So whatever that conversation was about we are simply left in the dark about officially, but by all accounts 'George' Harris talked to 'Peter Simpson via the land line at the scene, for about 15 minutes. What we also know is that during this 15 minute period, that neither, Harris, Gibbons, nor Montgonery left the main kitchen, so it should be obvious that Harris used the round finger dial phone at around 8.15am, to contact Peter Simpson, using the phone which one hour and forty five minutes later, was photographed by PC David Bird, with its handset off its cradle resting upon the kitchen worktop...

By 8.44am, Police Inspector 'Bob' Miller, and the police surgeon, Dr Craig, entered the farmhouse. By this stage, no less than 15 people had traipsed through the difderent rooms at the scene, prior to SOCO takibng control of the crime scene...
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 04:22:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51079
Re: Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...
« Reply #164 on: December 13, 2014, 04:30:PM »
Other officers arrived at the scene and poured into the farmhouse - PS Adams entered the main bedroom, and noted that the victims head was closer to a bedside cabinet in photographs taken later by PC Bird. He was the 16th person to traipse through the crime scene. Then came DCI 'Taff' Jones (17th), then came DS  'Stan' Jones (18th), and 'Mick' Clarke (19th). DCI CLARKE was next to enter the crime scene (20th), followed by the coroners officer, PC Wright (21st)...
« Last Edit: December 13, 2014, 06:53:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...