Informatives - carried out by a gang of interferring Senior Officers...

[Caroline]

Not necessarily, April. I believe Jeremy thinks, as Mike Tesko used to, that Sheila first shot herself in the kitchen and was unconscious for some time before the police broke in. If this did happen and Sheila regained consciousness, say half an hour later, the bleeding may well have stopped by then. 

Sorry if I have got this wrong, but are you saying the police 'knew' that Sheila had been alive when they broke in? Because if so, they would know she was guilty of four murders and yet they went on to frame an innocent man - can you suggest a reason why they might do that?

[mike tesko]

The second part of her nightie set (light blue petty coat) is missing, it was removed because it was understood to be heavily stained with her own blood, and blood from the other victims. It was originally sent to the lab to be examined along with her blue nightie, under exhibit references, ND3 and ND/5...

[Jane]

The second part of her nightie set (light blue petty coat) is missing, it was removed because it was understood to be heavily stained with her own blood, and blood from the other victims. It was originally sent to the lab to be examined along with her blue nightie, under exhibit references, ND3 and ND/5...

Mike, I have NO idea what it is that you mean by "the second part of her nightie set (light blue petticoat)". The description of petticoat denotes an under garment -the part worn next to the skin- which if it had been "heavily stained with her own blood and blood from other victims" so too would have been the over garment which would have been described as a negligee, front opening all the way through and secured by means of buttons or ties. This does not describe the garment that Sheila was wearing in the photos. I fail to see that if she'd been shot in the neck once whilst downstairs she'd have managed to not only get herself upstairs but change her nightdress without causing further bleeding, not to mention the pain. There is also the question of what she did with the bloodied garment Also to bear in mind is that as she was only at the farm for a few days, she'd hardly have packed a wardrobe of nightwear.

I am really struggling to come to terms with what you appear to be suggesting, that from the word GO police -to cover their own bumbling incompetency which could have been explained away and accepted- completely disregarded that they had a ready made perpetrator and started thinking about who they could frame for it, albeit that they were innocent.

[Gemma]

Sorry if I have got this wrong, but are you saying the police 'knew' that Sheila had been alive when they broke in? Because if so, they would know she was guilty of four murders and yet they went on to frame an innocent man - can you suggest a reason why they might do that?

I don't know why you are playing that game, Caroline, but I have read through your earlier posts when you were a supporter of Jeremy and you have shown yourself to be well familiar with the theory that there was a cover up on account of  some mishap which occurred during the raid.

As you well know, the theory is that the police originally found Sheila's body in a different location to the one we see in the photographs and this was related to the relatives who were told that Sheila's body was found on the bed next to that of June. And there are logs which report two bodies being found downstairs and which refer to a female body being found downstairs. Whatever the explanation is for Sheila's body being reported as being found in three different locations, it's easy to understand why the police would want to suppress the truth if it is something which conflicts with the official version. According to this theory the cover up originally had nothing to do with framing Jeremy but eventually led to it.

The basic theory is that the relatives suspected Jeremy and had leverage with the police because they could potentially cause trouble by disclosing the information they had concerning where Sheila's body was found. Ann Eaton was told by a policeman that Sheila's body was found on the bed with a bible on her chest. If that was true and became known, it would prove that it was the police who stage managed the body on the floor.

So, for the police, it became a choice between telling everyone the real truth, that is telling them that they know that Sheila did it but that it was they, the police, who staged managed the body for the official photographs, or conforming to the wishes of the relatives and pursuing a conviction against Jeremy.

Let me try to explain how  I became interested in this case. At the site Injustice Anywhere a poster called Supernaut started a thread on the Bamber case which contained links to this site.

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=2830

This post by Odusseus helped me form my views on the case

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=2830#p118041

When I started reading the posts I couldn't help but be struck by the similarity of the Bamber case to that of Amanda Knox. Supporters of Knox, and I am one of them, believe the Perugian police framed Knox and Solecito to save face. They realised that they had been barking up the wrong tree when they discovered that Rudy Guede was the killer, after they had gotten a coerced statement from Knox implicating Patrik Lumumba who had nothing to do with it. I think that poor Jeremy was the victim of similar face saving behaviour on the part of the police, just as you did not long ago. 

[Jane]

I don't know why you are playing that game, Caroline, but I have read through your earlier posts when you were a supporter of Jeremy and you have shown yourself to be well familiar with the theory that there was a cover up on account of  some mishap which occurred during the raid

A little rude and decidedly unfriendly, don't you think, Gemma, for a new member to suggest that a long term and valued member, who, presumably you don't know, is playing games.

[lookout]

 The case was based very much on  "who you know than what you know",and influence came from those who knew the relatives,i.e.the Carrs,one of whom worked for the Met ( nothing to do with them as they weren't involved with the case ) and the other Carr whose interest lay in the Osea caravan park as an employee, so was naturally biased toward the relatives.

[Gemma]

A little rude and decidedly unfriendly, don't you think, Gemma, for a new member to suggest that a long term and valued member, who, presumably you don't know, is playing games.

You are possibly right, April, but I'm sure Caroline can take care of herself. I would suggest that she is probably the most influential pro guilt writer on the case at the present time, so there is little need for me or anybody else to beat about the bush.

Actually I have been a member for a good while, it's just that I didn't feel ready to post. So you are all like old friends to me. 

[Mr. Gee]

Sorry if I have got this wrong, but are you saying the police 'knew' that Sheila had been alive when they broke in? Because if so, they would know she was guilty of four murders and yet they went on to frame an innocent man - can you suggest a reason why they might do that?

Not if it was them who shot her? Not saying they did of course. But it may explain why this case appears to have many unanswered questions for some people?

[Jane]

You are possibly right, April, but I'm sure Caroline can take care of herself. I would suggest that she is probably the most influential pro guilt writer on the case at the present time, so there is little need for me or anybody else to beat about the bush.

Actually I have been a member for a good while, it's just that I didn't feel ready to post. So you are all like old friends to me. 

You have a way with words, Gemma

[lookout]

 It's possibly someone who was " anti-Jeremy" to start with,then changed their stance as well as their ID.
I proceed with caution !!

[susan]

Hahaha april think Gemma has been here before

[Caroline]

I don't know why you are playing that game, Caroline, but I have read through your earlier posts when you were a supporter of Jeremy and you have shown yourself to be well familiar with the theory that there was a cover up on account of  some mishap which occurred during the raid.

As you well know, the theory is that the police originally found Sheila's body in a different location to the one we see in the photographs and this was related to the relatives who were told that Sheila's body was found on the bed next to that of June. And there are logs which report two bodies being found downstairs and which refer to a female body being found downstairs. Whatever the explanation is for Sheila's body being reported as being found in three different locations, it's easy to understand why the police would want to suppress the truth if it is something which conflicts with the official version. According to this theory the cover up originally had nothing to do with framing Jeremy but eventually led to it.

The basic theory is that the relatives suspected Jeremy and had leverage with the police because they could potentially cause trouble by disclosing the information they had concerning where Sheila's body was found. Ann Eaton was told by a policeman that Sheila's body was found on the bed with a bible on her chest. If that was true and became known, it would prove that it was the police who stage managed the body on the floor.

So, for the police, it became a choice between telling everyone the real truth, that is telling them that they know that Sheila did it but that it was they, the police, who staged managed the body for the official photographs, or conforming to the wishes of the relatives and pursuing a conviction against Jeremy.

Let me try to explain how  I became interested in this case. At the site Injustice Anywhere a poster called Supernaut started a thread on the Bamber case which contained links to this site.

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=2830

This post by Odusseus helped me form my views on the case

http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=123&t=2830#p118041

When I started reading the posts I couldn't help but be struck by the similarity of the Bamber case to that of Amanda Knox. Supporters of Knox, and I am one of them, believe the Perugian police framed Knox and Solecito to save face. They realised that they had been barking up the wrong tree when they discovered that Rudy Guede was the killer, after they had gotten a coerced statement from Knox implicating Patrik Lumumba who had nothing to do with it. I think that poor Jeremy was the victim of similar face saving behaviour on the part of the police, just as you did not long ago. 

Game? Sorry you lost me.

Anyway, I was certainly a supporter of Jeremy, however, that doesn't mean that I went along with every wild theory that was bandied about - I had my own views, just as I do now. I have never held with the belief that Sheila moved around the house after the first shot, that Sheila was originally found on the bed or that the police knowingly framed an innocent man. I leave such things to the 'conspiracy theorists'.

Sheila (if responsible) would have been an armed suspect, if she was killed during the siege (accidentally or deliberately in self defense) it would not warrant the big secret cover up that is being claimed here and certainly would not have led to the framing of an innocent Jeremy UNLESS, they thought he was guilty. (however, if they knew Sheila had been alive, then they would know Jeremy was innocent).  I think such claims are ridiculous and there is no evidence of it.

I've already said what I think in respect to how AE's confusion occurred re: 'Sheila on the left side of the bed'  - simply the word 'floor' was omitted and assumptions were made.

Please don't accuse me of playing games Gemma, I'm entitled to my opinion as much as you are entitled to yours. If you don't like it, then just don't respond - I've posted here for a long time and just because I have changed my mind, doesn't make me the enemy. The whole purpose of a 'debate, is to argue your case with the opposition, not dismiss them as a game player before you even start. I'm sure you'll appreciate me NOT 'beating around the bush'.

[Caroline]

Not if it was them who shot her? Not saying they did of course. But it may explain why this case appears to have many unanswered questions for some people?

Hi Grahame, there have been quite a few suspects that have been killed in such circumstances by police but it doesn't lead to a huge cover up or the framing of an innocent. I don't think you believe this particular theory anymore than I do? 

[Jan]

You are possibly right, April, but I'm sure Caroline can take care of herself. I would suggest that she is probably the most influential pro guilt writer on the case at the present time, so there is little need for me or anybody else to beat about the bush.

Actually I have been a member for a good while, it's just that I didn't feel ready to post. So you are all like old friends to me. 

Out of interest do you feel that because the family were so persistant in taking thier beliefs about the case "higher up the chain" that it came to a point where the police were backed into a corner regarding the investigation?

[mike tesko]

Mike, I have NO idea what it is that you mean by "the second part of her nightie set (light blue petticoat)". The description of petticoat denotes an under garment -the part worn next to the skin- which if it had been "heavily stained with her own blood and blood from other victims" so too would have been the over garment which would have been described as a negligee, front opening all the way through and secured by means of buttons or ties. This does not describe the garment that Sheila was wearing in the photos. I fail to see that if she'd been shot in the neck once whilst downstairs she'd have managed to not only get herself upstairs but change her nightdress without causing further bleeding, not to mention the pain. There is also the question of what she did with the bloodied garment Also to bear in mind is that as she was only at the farm for a few days, she'd hardly have packed a wardrobe of nightwear.

I am really struggling to come to terms with what you appear to be suggesting, that from the word GO police -to cover their own bumbling incompetency which could have been explained away and accepted- completely disregarded that they had a ready made perpetrator and started thinking about who they could frame for it, albeit that they were innocent.

Go to the following link, to see what I am talking about:-

http://www.sleep-pretty-nightwear.com

choose category - SLEEP SETS...

Substitute the term I used previously (petty coat) and replace it with the term, 'Robe'...

Police took possession of Sheila's light blue (a)  nightie, and (b) robe, exhibit references ND/3 and ND/5...