The proposed purchase of a Porsche by the appellant

[Mr. Gee]

A shortened version
 
Jeremy cycled/walked to WHF at 2am.

Got in through a loosened window. Picked up a fully loaded rifle.

Crept upstairs. Shot June and Neville 11 times in/by their bed.

Neville gets downstairs. Is followed and brutally beaten and shot again. Dying.

Sheila is lead or carried to the main bedroom. Or had already woken and retreats to the far corner. She is shot and killed.

The asleep twins are killed.

The staging of the scene to make it look like murder/suicide  takes place.

Jeremy exits out of a window. Banging it locked from outside. Then walks/cycles home. 

Simple.

As simple as your thoughts that is. Of course you KNOW all this. lol

[Mr. Gee]

No hiding behind waffle please.

If you can't give me a credible way how Sheila did it, knowing exactly who ended up where & where the bullets were fired, you have to say Jeremy is guilty.

I don't waffle. I leave the waffling up to you lad. It's all in your mind. It is the easiest thing in the world to invent a scenario as to how you think Bamber did it. Because at best it is all guesswork on your part. You've said it so many times now that you are a slave to the same old scenario. You simply cannot break out of your tiny world of guesses can you? You are a black and white minstrel and you simply cannot free yourself from your self delusion. You cannot contemplate anything else so whatever we say you will inevitable reject. You may think it happened the way you say it did. But it could have happened in an entirely different way? But you cannot conceive of anything else because you are a slave to your own thoughts.

[Adam]

What other way is there ?

He had to cycle/walk to WHF.

He had to get through a window.

He had to get a loaded rifle and creep upstairs.

He had to shoot and kill everyone -Neville/June/Sheila/the twins being the most common sense order. Although it may have been a different order.

It's a fact Neville got downstairs and was brutally beaten. Thread already created.

He had to stage the scene and exit through a window. Banging it locked from outside.

What else is there to contemplate ?

[Adam]

Anyway Grahame. Rather than insults, please tell me how you think Sheila committed the massacre. As you said I have posted more than once how Jeremy did it. It was easy for me to do.

Surely it cannot be hard for you to do as you  strongly believe she did it and are always trying to find ways that Jeremy couldn't have done it.

You know the crime scene. What more information do you need ?

Please include Neville's one/two phone calls. Sheila's two re loads , Neville's brutal beating and June's sleep.

Thank you.

[lookout]

FGS,throw away the idea of the bicycle. That debate has died a death. The same as the Porsche,silencer,blood and paint on the silencer and all the other nonsense that exists.
If you can't work out by now who killed who ( leaving Jeremy out of the equation ) then there's no real debate,is there ?

[Mr. Gee]

Anyway Grahame. Rather than insults, please tell me how you think Sheila committed the massacre. As you said I have posted more than once how Jeremy did it. It was easy for me to do.

Surely it cannot be hard for you to do as you  strongly believe she did it and are always trying to find ways that Jeremy couldn't have done it.

You know the crime scene. What more information do you need ?

Please include Neville's one/two phone calls. Sheila's two re loads , Neville's brutal beating and June's sleep.

Thank you.

You insulted me first. But it is true. You do waffle on a lot don't you.

[Mr. Gee]

Anyway Grahame. Rather than insults, please tell me how you think Sheila committed the massacre. As you said I have posted more than once how Jeremy did it. It was easy for me to do.

Surely it cannot be hard for you to do as you  strongly believe she did it and are always trying to find ways that Jeremy couldn't have done it.

You know the crime scene. What more information do you need ?

Please include Neville's one/two phone calls. Sheila's two re loads , Neville's brutal beating and June's sleep.

Thank you.

Adam anyone can dream up a scenario and in the past I have indulged this foolishness just for your sake. But in principle I do not condone scenarios, because of the very reasons I gave at the time we simply do not know because none of us were there, so anything we may come up with is in the end no more than a guess as is your own pet scenario. There may have been factors in the case and indeed the distinct possibility that the police themselves interfered with the scene, plus the doubted use/non use of a silencer. Also as to whether we have ALL the crime scene photographs. As well as the various accusations, like did Bamber set up the scene, or did the police do so etc (for instance where is Taff Jones' notebook?). In other words there are so many variables for anyone to take into consideration that personally because of those things the case is not such a clear cut one as it may seem to be on the surface? So Adam I am not so willing as you are to rush into making scenarios, as all scenarios can be just a figment of our imaginations and I suggest that they are for the very reasons I have given.

ps: The police rejected the bicycle as evidence. If he did it he had to get there. But there is no forensic evidence to say he was anywhere near the place, so that is also just a guess.

[lookout]

Sheilas' ILLNESS/MIND committed the crime,NOT her as a person. The woman was of an unsound mind who very likely " heard voices " telling her to do so.
It must be horrendous to hear voices commanding you to carry out,usually,killings.

Adam,I wish that you'd take the time to study those patients who are mentally ill and have voices in their head,then perhaps you'd have some sympathy/empathy how they struggle to live their lives on a daily basis. Sheila took drugs to try and block things out and most of the time her persona masked her real illness.

Nobody but nobody knew how ill Sheila was. Her thoughts finally turned into reality.

[Mr. Gee]

Reason why Bamber could not have got into WHF undetected:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1LiOApC5As

[susan]

Morning Mr.Gee Jeremy Bamber  could have already been in the farmhouse like Caroline suggested it is a possible scenario he brought the last trailer back and went into the house which would be quite the norm.

[Mr. Gee]

Morning Mr.Gee Jeremy Bamber  could have already been in the farmhouse like Caroline suggested it is a possible scenario he brought the last trailer back and went into the house which would be quite the norm.

Morning Susan, indeed he could have. But it is only one more guess isn't it? One reason that I can't be as sure as Adam apparently can? Every thing we suggest is most probably wrong, even though it might make sense to us? That is what I am saying. We say something enough times as Adam does and we become convinced in our own minds that it is the truth to the exclusion of all else. Unhappily in the case of Adam his scenario has become so much of an obsession that he cannot see any other possibility. Even to the extent that he has convinced himself that I am a Bamber supporter instead of a believer in justice, which I am. His thinking together with scipio (who ought to know better) has been polarized so that he only sees in one direction.

[susan]

Grahame we all have our own ideas and it is possible that none of us are correct.  I am afraid Adam has no grey area it is either black or white with him whereas I am open to other ideas of what may have happened.  I realise you are seeking Justice for Jeremy Bamber and although I am tending to think he is guilty I like many others feel he did not have a fair Trial  in fact it was more like a circus  and he should have a retrial.

[Adam]

FGS,throw away the idea of the bicycle. That debate has died a death. The same as the Porsche,silencer,blood and paint on the silencer and all the other nonsense that exists.
If you can't work out by now who killed who ( leaving Jeremy out of the equation ) then there's no real debate,is there ?

It is pretty certain Jeremy cycled to and from WHF. Threads already created.

Julie said that was his plan & the bike arrived at his cottage just before the massacre.

Jeremy said he got the bike for Julie. Although she was travelling over to spend time with Jeremy. Not go cycling off on her own. The judge didn't accept Jeremy's reason.

[Mr. Gee]

Just to clarify my position on the Bamber case. I am not a Bamber supporter I am a free thinker on this and a believer in justice. The accusation by some people whose thinking has been polarized to that they cannot see except in one direction alone reminds me of a story that was born out of the troubles in Northern Ireland. A man was held up at gunpoint and asked, "Are you a Catholic or a Protestant". The man relied, " I'm an Atheist". To which came the confused reply, "Yes, but are you Catholic Atheist, or a Protestant Atheist?"

These people remind me of those gunmen. The believe I must be one or the other? In other words if I do not hold to certain views of theirs then it is obvious that I must be a Bamber supporter even though I say I am not. Then they are further confused when I ask questions and have doubts about Bamber and so they come to the conclusion that I am lying and must still be a Bamber supporter.

I am posting this not only to try and clarify where I am in relation to Bamber's guilt or innocence, but also to highlight the inability for these people to look at this case with an open mind and having an open mind, to look at the evidence from all sides instead of having a closed mind on the subject. This I believe is the only way to look at this case fairly and without prejudice. Sadly it is the position of so few on this forum? All I am doing is trying to keep a balanced mind in all this.

[Adam]

Grahame we all have our own ideas and it is possible that none of us are correct.  I am afraid Adam has no grey area it is either black or white with him whereas I am open to other ideas of what may have happened.  I realise you are seeking Justice for Jeremy Bamber and although I am tending to think he is guilty I like many others feel he did not have a fair Trial  in fact it was more like a circus  and he should have a retrial.

Feel free to comment on the already created thread 'Did Jeremy have a fair trial'.

Giving you're reasons why you believe it was unfair & why he should have a retrial. The legal system does not agree.