Author Topic: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?  (Read 5311 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline scipio_usmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9502
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2014, 03:58:PM »
Correction. There appears to be some misunderstanding relating to the DNA found inside the moderator. As it stands at the moment Sheila's LCN DNA was accepted by the COA as not being inside the moderator.

The paint on the knurl end of the moderator could have made at any time before the tragedies.
I have my own theories about the scratch marks.

When a sample was taken from the underside of the mantel piece why did Jones and Cook not see the scratches on the 14th August? They put a yellow label on the mantel piece from where they got a sample.  On the 12 th August Jones was given the moderator and was aware of the possibility of red paint being on the moderator.  So why on the 14th does he take samples with Cook and fail to notice any scratch marks which so happened to be where the samples were taken from. I can't see how either of them failed to see the scratches. Unless the knife they used slipped and they made the scratches in an attempt to take the samples.  Then those same scratches were used in evidence or made to fit the evidence presented in court. It is possible if you look at it from both angles.  :-\

1) The police did see the scratches on the 14th.  They took the samples because not only the color matched but because of the scratches.

2) the notion people often had the gun with the moderator attached in the kitchen to have been able to scratch it at a prior time is contrary to testimony of guns being unloaded and cleaned elsewhere. At any rate, the scratches were zigzags thus NOT CONSISTENT with being made by someone walking with the gun and accidentially hitting the wall or the gun lening against something, falling and scratching the wall on the way down. The zig zag pattern is consistent with a fight fro control of the weapon as peopel pulled back and forth. The only other explanation woudl be someone attempoting to make it look like it was made in a struggle as peopel fought back and forth.  So it was either intentionally fabricated or it was genuinely cuased by a struggle over control of the weapon.  those are the only possibilities.  Being caused prior to the murders naturally by an accident is not possible.

3) The Appeal Court said Sheila's DNA may or may not have been inside and there was no need to decide whethe rit was or not.  From a factual standpoint it was, the defense expert chose to ignore that enough markers matched to say it was hers. The defense expert also chose to declare the faint DNA profile was a male though scientifically speaking the claim was baseless. The defense needed more than just June's DNA it needed Nevill's because all experts agreed the blood could not have been June's alone.  So the imlication was the minor contributpor could have been Nevill because it was male. 

The obvious distortion by the defense was a waste of time though because a DNA test of the blood removed is the only way to detemrine for sure whose blood it was. Testing the moderator would not and especially not testing the moderator after it had no blood left.  Any DNA found can't have been blood based in such circumstances.

« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 04:12:PM by scipio_usmc »
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Mr. Gee

  • Guest
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2014, 07:36:PM »
1) The police did see the scratches on the 14th.  They took the samples because not only the color matched but because of the scratches.

2) the notion people often had the gun with the moderator attached in the kitchen to have been able to scratch it at a prior time is contrary to testimony of guns being unloaded and cleaned elsewhere. At any rate, the scratches were zigzags thus NOT CONSISTENT with being made by someone walking with the gun and accidentially hitting the wall or the gun lening against something, falling and scratching the wall on the way down. The zig zag pattern is consistent with a fight fro control of the weapon as peopel pulled back and forth. The only other explanation woudl be someone attempoting to make it look like it was made in a struggle as peopel fought back and forth.  So it was either intentionally fabricated or it was genuinely cuased by a struggle over control of the weapon.  those are the only possibilities.  Being caused prior to the murders naturally by an accident is not possible.

3) The Appeal Court said Sheila's DNA may or may not have been inside and there was no need to decide whethe rit was or not.  From a factual standpoint it was, the defense expert chose to ignore that enough markers matched to say it was hers. The defense expert also chose to declare the faint DNA profile was a male though scientifically speaking the claim was baseless. The defense needed more than just June's DNA it needed Nevill's because all experts agreed the blood could not have been June's alone.  So the imlication was the minor contributpor could have been Nevill because it was male. 

The obvious distortion by the defense was a waste of time though because a DNA test of the blood removed is the only way to detemrine for sure whose blood it was. Testing the moderator would not and especially not testing the moderator after it had no blood left.  Any DNA found can't have been blood based in such circumstances.
So can I refresh my memory here? Who discovered the scratches on the mantle piece?

Offline scipio_usmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9502
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2014, 08:34:PM »
So can I refresh my memory here? Who discovered the scratches on the mantle piece?

Cook, Miller and DS Jones on the evening of 8/14/85 when they went to look for paint samples to try to match to the moderator.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Mr. Gee

  • Guest
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2014, 09:43:PM »
Cook, Miller and DS Jones on the evening of 8/14/85 when they went to look for paint samples to try to match to the moderator.
So it wasn't the relatives who discovered the scratches then?

Offline scipio_usmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9502
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2014, 04:03:PM »
So it wasn't the relatives who discovered the scratches then?

No, but Ann Eaton said they rapidly went room to room and only in the kitchen did they not rush through but rather quickly zeroed in on the mantle.

They were looking for a something with the specific paint color found on the moderator and oddly enough the manle is the only thing in the house with that color. Uusually houses have multiple things the same color.  Anyway that made it easy for police to scan a room and not see anything that color and to move on till they finally were in a room that did have it.

But conspiracy theorists say this is evidence police made the scratches in advance, thus knew where to look and just went through the other rooms first as a pretext to conceal they had made the scratches.

That is rather far fetched though that they made the scratches before they gave the keys to the fmaily, returned days later to look for said scratches and then put on a show for Ann Eaton by not going immediately to the mantle but instead making it look like they went room to room to look. But still that is what some suggest based on her claims she made in her statement.   

 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Mr. Gee

  • Guest
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2014, 06:46:PM »
No, but Ann Eaton said they rapidly went room to room and only in the kitchen did they not rush through but rather quickly zeroed in on the mantle.

They were looking for a something with the specific paint color found on the moderator and oddly enough the manle is the only thing in the house with that color. Uusually houses have multiple things the same color.  Anyway that made it easy for police to scan a room and not see anything that color and to move on till they finally were in a room that did have it.

But conspiracy theorists say this is evidence police made the scratches in advance, thus knew where to look and just went through the other rooms first as a pretext to conceal they had made the scratches.

That is rather far fetched though that they made the scratches before they gave the keys to the fmaily, returned days later to look for said scratches and then put on a show for Ann Eaton by not going immediately to the mantle but instead making it look like they went room to room to look. But still that is what some suggest based on her claims she made in her statement.   
I thought the conspiracy "theorists" said that the relatives made the scratches? But to be honest there really is no evidence that the scratches were made the night of the murders? They could have been made anytime, as Ann Eaton had not been round the house since Christmas. No evidence at all that the scatches have been made during a fight of any kind. That surely is just speculation?

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2014, 01:19:PM »
 If AP's rifle was registered/licensed at the address of WHF,and he'd stated he'd taken it home,what were the chances of him being found in possession of an illegal firearm ? And charged ?
Why would he have specifically denied that his rifle was there anyway on that particular night ?

I've never felt comfortable with this set-up.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2014, 01:22:PM »
What would have been AP's reason to take the rifle home,as he obviously knew he'd be in breach of the firearms policy by taking it from WHF ?

Offline maggie

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13651
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2014, 01:39:PM »
If AP's rifle was registered/licensed at the address of WHF,and he'd stated he'd taken it home,what were the chances of him being found in possession of an illegal firearm ? And charged ?
Why would he have specifically denied that his rifle was there anyway on that particular night ?

I've never felt comfortable with this set-up.
Nor me Lookout, it feels wrong  :-\ but scipio tells us we shouldn't trust our instincts and just believe what the police etc. told us. ;D

Mr. Gee

  • Guest
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2014, 01:59:PM »
Nor me Lookout, it feels wrong  :-\ but scipio tells us we shouldn't trust our instincts and just believe what the police etc. told us. ;D
You've got to remember he's trained as a lawyer and so only follows what it available to him. If he was an investigator however he would be suspicious of everyone especially the police.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2014, 02:08:PM »
Nor me Lookout, it feels wrong  :-\ but scipio tells us we shouldn't trust our instincts and just believe what the police etc. told us. ;D





Yes,and blah blah blah to him,Maggie. ::)- ;D

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2014, 02:10:PM »
You've got to remember he's trained as a lawyer and so only follows what it available to him. If he was an investigator however he would be suspicious of everyone especially the police.





Ahem,ahem,yes,I forgot :-[

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2014, 02:14:PM »
 AP changed his " tale " didn't he ?

Would Neville have been aware that AP had taken his rifle,I wonder ? He could have got Neville in hot water over that, being a man in his position and all.
Something isn't sitting right at all.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2014, 02:23:PM »
I'm afraid I'm not happy with all the jiggery-pokery that was overlooked by EP which would normally have either carried separate charges for the individuals concerned,or at least cautions----------but nothing.
This is what becomes of having friends in high places and messenger boys like Carr who worked for the Met,running to RWB every minute when something cropped up which helped cover mistakes which were made.

Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: The reason the police framed Jeremy ?
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2014, 05:41:PM »
I just posted this on anther thread about Susan May - I think it is very interesting :

"disinterested observer may conclude that some evidence had been manipulated to construct a case against Susan May". He added that a "number of police witnesses may have adjusted their evidence to fit a desired rather than valid outcome".

Last year, the Guardian traced a witness who said police tried to persuade him to lie in order to "eliminate" a red Ford Fiesta car, seen at the murder scene the night Hilda Marchbank was killed.

Police failed to disclose this evidence to the defence team and hid the fact they considered a local man a "good suspect" for the murder, after the car's sighting and an anonymous phone call naming him as the killer.





Now Scipio criticised me saying that I would not look at the individual  "components " of the bigger picture . Because they all added up to the fitting of the puzzle which "proves " Jeremy was guilty .

But when you do break down those components the mostly are all possible .

E.g
Jeremy could have gone out to shoot rabbits
No-one has dis-proved the call from Neville to Jeremy
He could have not realised how serious things were and called the local police in error
He could have called Julie because he was confused and not sure what to do .
Julie could have embellished her testimony for "the noble cause"
The Dickinson report explained the lack of blood on the night dress ( and anyway  it was destroyed so can not be re-tested)
If Sheila was still alive she could have washed her hands.
 etc etc


So then we are down to interpretation of the evidence/photos  and the logs that were released to the defence. And I do emphasise "interpretation"

The ONLY thing I can see that was the item that sealed Jeremys fate was the silencer and the "blood" that was found.

And in the case above it turned out that the prints in the blood that convicted Susan May - may not even be  prints in blood at all . How sad.