Was Sheila Caffell set up by her brother Jeremy Bamber?

[Hartley]

Yes i grant you there are many case's of killing parent's for financial gain , but killing children and at the same time your sister is PS , you have to concede Hartley what are the chance's of that ?

Well for those who think that JB is guilty, they would say the chances are pretty high; for those who think he's innocent then perhaps not.

To be honest I think that I could put forward a fairly compelling argument both for and against; some may see Sheila's illness as the cause, others may see it as an opportunity.

Are you aware of this ever happening anywhere else before in any country of the world ?

How do you mean, somebody murdering their entire family? Well yes, there are several incidents of such nature.

I don't quite follow you.

You are aware of similar crimes taking place without there being somebody who suffers from schizophrenia involved. Yet you argue that by adding in an additional variable, of a person suffering from schizophrenia, then it would indicate that the murders could not have taken place unless carried out by the schizophrenia sufferer?

I'm more than happy to entertain the idea that Sheila could have been responsible, but I can't entertain the idea that because of Sheila's illness then it must have been her.

[chochokeira]

Yes i grant you there are many case's of killing parent's for financial gain , but killing children and at the same time your sister is PS , you have to concede Hartley what are the chance's of that ?

Well for those who think that JB is guilty, they would say the chances are pretty high; for those who think he's innocent then perhaps not.

To be honest I think that I could put forward a fairly compelling argument both for and against; some may see Sheila's illness as the cause, others may see it as an opportunity.

Me too 

[joolz1975]

Yes i grant you there are many case's of killing parent's for financial gain , but killing children and at the same time your sister is PS , you have to concede Hartley what are the chance's of that ?

Well for those who think that JB is guilty, they would say the chances are pretty high; for those who think he's innocent then perhaps not.

To be honest I think that I could put forward a fairly compelling argument both for and against; some may see Sheila's illness as the cause, others may see it as an opportunity.

Me too 

Me 3

[jon]

Yes i grant you there are many case's of killing parent's for financial gain , but killing children and at the same time your sister is PS , you have to concede Hartley what are the chance's of that ?

Well for those who think that JB is guilty, they would say the chances are pretty high; for those who think he's innocent then perhaps not.

To be honest I think that I could put forward a fairly compelling argument both for and against; some may see Sheila's illness as the cause, others may see it as an opportunity.

Are you aware of this ever happening anywhere else before in any country of the world ?

How do you mean, somebody murdering their entire family? Well yes, there are several incidents of such nature.

I don't quite follow you.

You are aware of similar crimes taking place without there being somebody who suffers from schizophrenia involved. Yet you argue that by adding in an additional variable, of a person suffering from schizophrenia, then it would indicate that the murders could not have taken place unless carried out by the schizophrenia sufferer?

I'm more than happy to entertain the idea that Sheila could have been responsible, but I can't entertain the idea that because of Sheila's illness then it must have been her.

Put them both together my point is , how unlikely is it that JB is the killer and at the same time his sister is PS , man kill's five for financial gain and at the same time his sister is Paranoid Schizophrenic , are you aware of this happening before or is this the only time it as happened ?

[joolz1975]

Yes i grant you there are many case's of killing parent's for financial gain , but killing children and at the same time your sister is PS , you have to concede Hartley what are the chance's of that ?

Well for those who think that JB is guilty, they would say the chances are pretty high; for those who think he's innocent then perhaps not.

To be honest I think that I could put forward a fairly compelling argument both for and against; some may see Sheila's illness as the cause, others may see it as an opportunity.

Are you aware of this ever happening anywhere else before in any country of the world ?

How do you mean, somebody murdering their entire family? Well yes, there are several incidents of such nature.

I don't quite follow you.

You are aware of similar crimes taking place without there being somebody who suffers from schizophrenia involved. Yet you argue that by adding in an additional variable, of a person suffering from schizophrenia, then it would indicate that the murders could not have taken place unless carried out by the schizophrenia sufferer?

I'm more than happy to entertain the idea that Sheila could have been responsible, but I can't entertain the idea that because of Sheila's illness then it must have been her.

Put them both together my point is , how unlikely is it that JB is the killer and at the same time his sister is PS , man kill's five for financial gain and at the same time his sister is Paranoid Schizophrenic , are you aware of this happening before or is this the only time it as happened ?

Does it matter whether its the only time its happened?? even if it is it doesnt mean anything!

[Hartley]

Yes i grant you there are many case's of killing parent's for financial gain , but killing children and at the same time your sister is PS , you have to concede Hartley what are the chance's of that ?

Well for those who think that JB is guilty, they would say the chances are pretty high; for those who think he's innocent then perhaps not.

To be honest I think that I could put forward a fairly compelling argument both for and against; some may see Sheila's illness as the cause, others may see it as an opportunity.

Are you aware of this ever happening anywhere else before in any country of the world ?

How do you mean, somebody murdering their entire family? Well yes, there are several incidents of such nature.

I don't quite follow you.

You are aware of similar crimes taking place without there being somebody who suffers from schizophrenia involved. Yet you argue that by adding in an additional variable, of a person suffering from schizophrenia, then it would indicate that the murders could not have taken place unless carried out by the schizophrenia sufferer?

I'm more than happy to entertain the idea that Sheila could have been responsible, but I can't entertain the idea that because of Sheila's illness then it must have been her.

Put them both together my point is , how unlikely is it that JB is the killer and at the same time his sister is PS , man kill's five for financial gain and at the same time his sister is Paranoid Schizophrenic , are you aware of this happening before or is this the only time it as happened ?

No not off the top of my head.

I think you've exhausted me.  You win JB is innocent.

[simong]

Yes i grant you there are many case's of killing parent's for financial gain , but killing children and at the same time your sister is PS , you have to concede Hartley what are the chance's of that ?

Well for those who think that JB is guilty, they would say the chances are pretty high; for those who think he's innocent then perhaps not.

To be honest I think that I could put forward a fairly compelling argument both for and against; some may see Sheila's illness as the cause, others may see it as an opportunity.

Are you aware of this ever happening anywhere else before in any country of the world ?

How do you mean, somebody murdering their entire family? Well yes, there are several incidents of such nature.

I don't quite follow you.

You are aware of similar crimes taking place without there being somebody who suffers from schizophrenia involved. Yet you argue that by adding in an additional variable, of a person suffering from schizophrenia, then it would indicate that the murders could not have taken place unless carried out by the schizophrenia sufferer?

I'm more than happy to entertain the idea that Sheila could have been responsible, but I can't entertain the idea that because of Sheila's illness then it must have been her.

Put them both together my point is , how unlikely is it that JB is the killer and at the same time his sister is PS , man kill's five for financial gain and at the same time his sister is Paranoid Schizophrenic , are you aware of this happening before or is this the only time it as happened ?

Jon. are you still playing this silly comparing murders game? I thought when you asked me to find someone without mental illness killing his family it would stop. You want exact comparisons. Well back to you, how many nutty women kill their whole family and then her greedy brother is accused of doing it by his girlfriend. You are insistent on specifics, go ahead and find one in the whole world and all that.

[jon]

Yes i grant you there are many case's of killing parent's for financial gain , but killing children and at the same time your sister is PS , you have to concede Hartley what are the chance's of that ?

Well for those who think that JB is guilty, they would say the chances are pretty high; for those who think he's innocent then perhaps not.

To be honest I think that I could put forward a fairly compelling argument both for and against; some may see Sheila's illness as the cause, others may see it as an opportunity.

Are you aware of this ever happening anywhere else before in any country of the world ?

How do you mean, somebody murdering their entire family? Well yes, there are several incidents of such nature.

I don't quite follow you.

You are aware of similar crimes taking place without there being somebody who suffers from schizophrenia involved. Yet you argue that by adding in an additional variable, of a person suffering from schizophrenia, then it would indicate that the murders could not have taken place unless carried out by the schizophrenia sufferer?

I'm more than happy to entertain the idea that Sheila could have been responsible, but I can't entertain the idea that because of Sheila's illness then it must have been her.

Put them both together my point is , how unlikely is it that JB is the killer and at the same time his sister is PS , man kill's five for financial gain and at the same time his sister is Paranoid Schizophrenic , are you aware of this happening before or is this the only time it as happened ?

Does it matter whether its the only time its happened?? even if it is it doesnt mean anything!

The police go to court everyday saying a DNA match is so many million to one chance , would you care to put a figure on this ? A man kill's his family for financial gain including two innocent children , his sister is PS , he is stupid enough to tell his girlfriend all before during and after the evil deed , then he pass's lie detector test , then add to that all the other argument's in the case DNA , silencer etc

[joolz1975]

Yes i grant you there are many case's of killing parent's for financial gain , but killing children and at the same time your sister is PS , you have to concede Hartley what are the chance's of that ?

Well for those who think that JB is guilty, they would say the chances are pretty high; for those who think he's innocent then perhaps not.

To be honest I think that I could put forward a fairly compelling argument both for and against; some may see Sheila's illness as the cause, others may see it as an opportunity.

Are you aware of this ever happening anywhere else before in any country of the world ?

How do you mean, somebody murdering their entire family? Well yes, there are several incidents of such nature.

I don't quite follow you.

You are aware of similar crimes taking place without there being somebody who suffers from schizophrenia involved. Yet you argue that by adding in an additional variable, of a person suffering from schizophrenia, then it would indicate that the murders could not have taken place unless carried out by the schizophrenia sufferer?

I'm more than happy to entertain the idea that Sheila could have been responsible, but I can't entertain the idea that because of Sheila's illness then it must have been her.

Put them both together my point is , how unlikely is it that JB is the killer and at the same time his sister is PS , man kill's five for financial gain and at the same time his sister is Paranoid Schizophrenic , are you aware of this happening before or is this the only time it as happened ?

Does it matter whether its the only time its happened?? even if it is it doesnt mean anything!

The police go to court everyday saying a DNA match is so many million to one chance , would you care to put a figure on this ? A man kill's his family for financial gain including two innocent children , his sister is PS , he is stupid enough to tell his girlfriend all before during and after the evil deed , then he pass's lie detector test , then add to that all the other argument's in the case DNA , silencer etc

Whats DNA got to do with anything?? there wasnt any DNA evidence! if there was do you think we would be discussing this now??

Yes they go to court saying a DNA match is so many million to one chance because its scientific EVIDENCE. Whether SC was more likely to kill than her brother because of her illness is not evidence its just speculation!

You could say theres a higer probability of JB carrying out the murders knowing he could frame his sister i suppose cos he was probably more likely to get away with it knowing he had a schizophrenic sister to blame!

[jon]

Yes i grant you there are many case's of killing parent's for financial gain , but killing children and at the same time your sister is PS , you have to concede Hartley what are the chance's of that ?

Well for those who think that JB is guilty, they would say the chances are pretty high; for those who think he's innocent then perhaps not.

To be honest I think that I could put forward a fairly compelling argument both for and against; some may see Sheila's illness as the cause, others may see it as an opportunity.

Are you aware of this ever happening anywhere else before in any country of the world ?

How do you mean, somebody murdering their entire family? Well yes, there are several incidents of such nature.

I don't quite follow you.

You are aware of similar crimes taking place without there being somebody who suffers from schizophrenia involved. Yet you argue that by adding in an additional variable, of a person suffering from schizophrenia, then it would indicate that the murders could not have taken place unless carried out by the schizophrenia sufferer?

I'm more than happy to entertain the idea that Sheila could have been responsible, but I can't entertain the idea that because of Sheila's illness then it must have been her.

Put them both together my point is , how unlikely is it that JB is the killer and at the same time his sister is PS , man kill's five for financial gain and at the same time his sister is Paranoid Schizophrenic , are you aware of this happening before or is this the only time it as happened ?

Jon. are you still playing this silly comparing murders game? I thought when you asked me to find someone without mental illness killing his family it would stop. You want exact comparisons. Well back to you, how many nutty women kill their whole family and then her greedy brother is accused of doing it by his girlfriend. You are insistent on specifics, go ahead and find one in the whole world and all that.

There are many case's of women killing their children it's only highly unusual when it start's getting blamed on a third party like in the Bamber case , if SC killed her children would it have been such an unusual case ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-10900112 i happen to think it is very important to find a precedent in case's like this hope you dont mind

[Hartley]

Personally I think you are being too specific.

If you are going to work on odds and and chances, then you can dwindle them down further, you can discount all murders not carried out in a house owned by a charity, then discount all listed properties, then discount all non-pet owners, discount all non-tractor owners, discount all who don't have the surname Bamber.....

If that's the avenue you want to examine, then that's up to you. Think I might wait until you've finished though. 

[chochokeira]

Yes i grant you there are many case's of killing parent's for financial gain , but killing children and at the same time your sister is PS , you have to concede Hartley what are the chance's of that ?

Well for those who think that JB is guilty, they would say the chances are pretty high; for those who think he's innocent then perhaps not.

To be honest I think that I could put forward a fairly compelling argument both for and against; some may see Sheila's illness as the cause, others may see it as an opportunity.

Are you aware of this ever happening anywhere else before in any country of the world ?

=1 for this, Harters

[simong]

Back to our good friend Shawn Bentler http://www.woi-tv.com/Global/story.asp?s=6482141

I personally don't see the point in debating and comparing past murders, however this is uncannily like the Bamber case isn't it?

[paulg]

Back to our good friend Shawn Bentler http://www.woi-tv.com/Global/story.asp?s=6482141

I personally don't see the point in debating and comparing past murders, however this is uncannily like the Bamber case isn't it?

Smart arse.

So we've got one that has a surname starting with Ba, now Be, bet you can't find one starting Bi.

[Hartley]

Back to our good friend Shawn Bentler http://www.woi-tv.com/Global/story.asp?s=6482141

I personally don't see the point in debating and comparing past murders, however this is uncannily like the Bamber case isn't it?

Nah, nice try Simon, but that's completely different, it's in the US for a start and it wasn't in the 80's.