Undisputed facts

[mike tesko]

And the fresh wet looking blood that was photographed (from 10 am) to be running and leaking and pouring from the two wounds upon her neck / throat is consistent with her having been killed no longer than two to three hours beforehand...

[Kaldin]

In fact in PS Adams statements mentioned above he makes specific reference to the fact that what was mistakenly thought to be a female body turned out to be that of Ralph.

Can't be much clearer. 

--------------------------

Except that at a de-briefing PS Adams and the other armed police officers were told by senior officers that they all had to write up their notes, and make their statements along the lines that what they had been dealing with was four murders and a suicide, and that they had to refer to the position of the  bodies as shown in the SOC video clip, and photographs...

PS Adams told COLP (1991) that he was not happy with the position of Sheila's body as shown in the video taken at the scene, but he was told by senior officers to toe the line, along with everyone else...

So, if true, where does that leave PS Adams account about the female body and the male body?

In any event, if this was merely a mistake where the body of a male victim was inadvertently identified as the body of a dead female, how come that according to the contents of the police radio message log, there was only another three bodies found upstairs by 8:10am?

Additionally, how come by 7:45am, DS Davidson (SOC) was being contacted at his home and told to come into the office because police at the scene (WHF) were dealing with a murder and a suicide?

If there was only one body - how could the police at the scene at that time, be dealing with a murder, and a suicide?

The known facts do not fit the explanation you are referring to and relying upon, since, if it was merely a case of a mix up, where the body of a dead male was mistakenly identified as a dead female, police at the scene would not be reporting a murder and a suicide, and what is more, four bodies would have been found upstairs, not three, by 8:10am...

Where did Adams say he'd seen a video of the scene? That's the first I heard of it.

[mike tesko]

There are clearly two types of blood visible in this image, blood that is dried, and blood which is wet and fresh looking - in my opinion, blood from the first wound and blood from the second wound

[mike tesko]

In fact in PS Adams statements mentioned above he makes specific reference to the fact that what was mistakenly thought to be a female body turned out to be that of Ralph.

Can't be much clearer. 

--------------------------

Except that at a de-briefing PS Adams and the other armed police officers were told by senior officers that they all had to write up their notes, and make their statements along the lines that what they had been dealing with was four murders and a suicide, and that they had to refer to the position of the  bodies as shown in the SOC video clip, and photographs...

PS Adams told COLP (1991) that he was not happy with the position of Sheila's body as shown in the video taken at the scene, but he was told by senior officers to toe the line, along with everyone else...

So, if true, where does that leave PS Adams account about the female body and the male body?

In any event, if this was merely a mistake where the body of a male victim was inadvertently identified as the body of a dead female, how come that according to the contents of the police radio message log, there was only another three bodies found upstairs by 8:10am?

Additionally, how come by 7:45am, DS Davidson (SOC) was being contacted at his home and told to come into the office because police at the scene (WHF) were dealing with a murder and a suicide?

If there was only one body - how could the police at the scene at that time, be dealing with a murder, and a suicide?

The known facts do not fit the explanation you are referring to and relying upon, since, if it was merely a case of a mix up, where the body of a dead male was mistakenly identified as a dead female, police at the scene would not be reporting a murder and a suicide, and what is more, four bodies would have been found upstairs, not three, by 8:10am...

Where did Adams say he'd seen a video of the scene? That's the first I heard of it.

-----------------------

Yes, he mentions a video of the scene that was taken by SOC...

I will be posting those notes in due course...

[mike tesko]

The pathologist does not give a time of death, and he does not attempt to give an estimated time of death, so the delay between both shots being inflicted could have happened at any stage - including between 7:40am and some time around 8:10am...


The skin on Sheila's body is not discolored sufficiently to warrant a claim that she must have been dead for many hours before PC Bird took pictures of the body in situ...

[mike tesko]

Lets also look closely at the shape of Sheila's left hand and fingers, you can clearly see that there is some evidence of Cadaveric Spasm - where it appears to show that she was grasping hold of the barrel at the time of her death with her left hand...

[Kaldin]

There are clearly two types of blood visible in this image, blood that is dried, and blood which is wet and fresh looking - in my opinion, blood from the first wound and blood from the second wound

The blood from her mouth looks dry, and Dr Craig said it was dried. The blood on her throat looks wettish, but it's from the same shot as the blood from her mouth. It makes no sense that some blood from one shot would be dry and some would still be wet.

[Kaldin]

The pathologist does not give a time of death, and he does not attempt to give an estimated time of death, so the delay between both shots being inflicted could have happened at any stage - including between 7:40am and some time around 8:10am...


The skin ion Sheila's body is not discolored sufficiently to warrant a claim that she must have been dead for many hours before PC Bird took pictures of the body in situ...

I haven't seen a photo of Sheila which would show livor mortis anyway.

[mike tesko]

The pathologist does not give a time of death, and he does not attempt to give an estimated time of death, so the delay between both shots being inflicted could have happened at any stage - including between 7:40am and some time around 8:10am...


The skin ion Sheila's body is not discolored sufficiently to warrant a claim that she must have been dead for many hours before PC Bird took pictures of the body in situ...

I haven't seen a photo of Sheila which would show livor mortis anyway.

-------------------

JB has these from the mortuary...

[Hartley]

Besides that, discolouration in tissue due to liver mortis would occur in tissue closest to the ground, blood would drain due to gravity. A waxy appearance would be in keeping with the effect.

There is likewise no indication that she had been dead for a lesser time, as you say time if death is inconclusive.

[mike tesko]

There are clearly two types of blood visible in this image, blood that is dried, and blood which is wet and fresh looking - in my opinion, blood from the first wound and blood from the second wound

The blood from her mouth looks dry, and Dr Craig said it was dried. The blood on her throat looks wettish, but it's from the same shot as the blood from her mouth. It makes no sense that some blood from one shot would be dry and some would still be wet.

--------------------------------

Yes, have you contemplated why some of the blood appears to be wet, whilst other blood appears to be dried?

It's linked to the movement of the body by the police from the bed to the floor, and whilst on the floor, as  result of rolling her body about from its side onto the supine position...

The police moved the body, and what you see in the photograph in so far as the blood is concerned, is evidence of that movement and disturbance by the police...

Simple...

[mike tesko]

Besides that, discolouration in tissue due to liver mortis would occur in tissue closest to the ground, blood would drain due to gravity. A waxy appearance would be in keeping with the effect.

There is likewise no indication that she had been dead for a lesser time, as you say time if death is inconclusive.

-----------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livor_mortis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algor_mortis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallor_mortis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigor_mortis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposition

[Hartley]

Yes as I said, the lower areas would be discolored.
You cant see the lower areas in any of the photographs.

[Kaldin]

There are clearly two types of blood visible in this image, blood that is dried, and blood which is wet and fresh looking - in my opinion, blood from the first wound and blood from the second wound

The blood from her mouth looks dry, and Dr Craig said it was dried. The blood on her throat looks wettish, but it's from the same shot as the blood from her mouth. It makes no sense that some blood from one shot would be dry and some would still be wet.

--------------------------------

Yes, have you contemplated why some of the blood appears to be wet, whilst other blood appears to be dried?

It's linked to the movement of the body by the police from the bed to the floor, and whilst on the floor, as  result of rolling her body about from its side onto the supine position...

The police moved the body, and what you see in the photograph in so far as the blood is concerned, is evidence of that movement and disturbance by the police...

Simple...

It could also be because of flash photography giving a false impression.

You said a while back that the blood from her mouth was fresh and that it was held in her mouth until she was moved, and now you don't appear to think that.

[Hartley]

Disputed facts may be a better title.