Author Topic: Jeremy's court testimony:  (Read 25037 times)

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Mr. Gee

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #240 on: October 09, 2014, 12:12:AM »
Jeremy also lied to the police on the night. Saying Sheila was proficient  with all the guns inside WHF.

Only retracting weeks later.
Why do you think he retracted that?

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #241 on: October 09, 2014, 12:48:AM »
No I mean which police officer did he tell that Sheila could fire guns?

I provided images from the statements of some of the police he told such to.  You even responded to my post quoting the snippets.

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Offline nugnug

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #242 on: October 09, 2014, 12:49:AM »
if you had a friend or relative accused of shooting 4 people and you had never seen them handle a gun before and to your knowledge they had never used a gun dident like guns wouldn't you question there guilt straight away.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 12:49:AM by nugnug »

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #243 on: October 09, 2014, 12:49:AM »
Bews and Myall

and Mercer, and Adams and perhaps others as well.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #244 on: October 09, 2014, 12:54:AM »
if you had a friend or relative accused of shooting 4 people and you had never seen them handle a gun before and to your knowledge they had never used a gun dident like guns wouldn't you question there guilt straight away.

Naturally and to overcome such knowledge would require solid evidence they did in fact do it nonethless such as having blood of the victims and GSR on them and there not being a way to say it happened just by being a witness to the murders.

To an extent it could also be overcome with reliable evidence that they did in fact like guns and use them you just were unaware of it.  Though you woudl still want proof they did it not just that they had in fact used guns without your knowledge.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Patti

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #245 on: October 09, 2014, 12:57:AM »
I provided images from the statements of some of the police he told such to.  You even responded to my post quoting the snippets.

I know.....but I can't remember what has been said two or 3 days ago. I can't see that Bews or Mayall could either and there are a lot of holes in those statements and could be cross examined to the point of being slightly exaggerated or misinterpretated.

The classic example is that it was reported that Jeremy was well dressed. He wore trainers, jeans, sweater and an open neck shirt with a blue short jacket. Hardly well dressed.

Anyway I am exhausted and off up the apples and pairs....

One last question. How do you know so much about the case? I never see you in the archives. Is it that you might be an old poster who has come back to haunt us? lol

Night Sciop... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Caroline

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #246 on: October 09, 2014, 01:13:AM »
I know.....but I can't remember what has been said two or 3 days ago. I can't see that Bews or Mayall could either and there are a lot of holes in those statements and could be cross examined to the point of being slightly exaggerated or misinterpretated.

The classic example is that it was reported that Jeremy was well dressed. He wore trainers, jeans, sweater and an open neck shirt with a blue short jacket. Hardly well dressed.

Anyway I am exhausted and off up the apples and pairs....

One last question. How do you know so much about the case? I never see you in the archives. Is it that you might be an old poster who has come back to haunt us? lol

Night Sciop... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

It was their job not to forget and they have pocket books.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #247 on: October 09, 2014, 01:14:AM »
Why do you think he retracted that?

First of all he retracted it one day later.  Teh day of the murders he siad he taught her to shoot the murde rwepaon and she had fired all the guns in the house.  The next day he put in his statement he wasn't aware of her using it.

There are several reaosns why he would change it:

1)  The family said she wasn't known to take any interest in guns and hadn't fired any to their knowledge.  He didn't want his claims to conflict with the family because it might look like he was lying to frame Sheila

2) His lie already served its purpose the day of the murders which was to convice those at the scene that she was a threat to them and was responsible for the bodies they found

3) In retrospect it looks suspicious to say he decided to train someone he considered a nut and by his own admission did not get along with how to use a gun and thus sounds like a lie aimed to frame her or even suggests he was using her and they might have done it together.  Indeed one of the pieces of evidence used against hism was that June said he tried to teach Sheila how to load the magazine of the gun but she didn't want to know.  The part about not wanting to know how is damaging but so is the fact he wanted to teach her at all.  Was he just trying to get her fingerprints on it or was he trying to get her to shoot so peopel would know she could shoot?

Admitting he never saw her shoot prevented them from catching him in a lie.  He assumed his claims the day before verbally at the scene would not be compared to the written statement. It is also possible he forgot that he lied and told cops he took her shooting and that she had fired all weapons in the house before the raid took place.  It is a common thing for liars not being able to rememebr the lie they told last and thus either telling a new contradictory lie or admitting the turth forgetting they lied earlier.

Jeremy's story would change defending upon what he needed at any given time.  When he gave his first 2 statements he had no reaosn to lie and say he used the gun the weeke before the murders.  When he was being interrogated he was told how Anthony was the last known user of the gun and had found the gun with the moderator and scope attached and put it away with the moderator and scope attached.  Thus it should have had the scope and moderator when Jeremy took it out o shoot the rabbits.  He then changed his story saying he used it repeatedly the week before the murders.  Teh change was to prevent Anthony from being the last known user.  He claimed Nevill also kept using it the week prior and he sometimes removed the scope and moderator before putting it away but other times did not. This change was to make it seem possible to have found the gun without the moderator and scope. He told the truth when he didn't think it mattered or when he felt that was the best thing to do but when it a lie would help him better he would lie and make up things he felt was favorable to his position. 


   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #248 on: October 09, 2014, 01:52:AM »
I know.....but I can't remember what has been said two or 3 days ago. I can't see that Bews or Mayall could either and there are a lot of holes in those statements and could be cross examined to the point of being slightly exaggerated or misinterpretated.

The classic example is that it was reported that Jeremy was well dressed. He wore trainers, jeans, sweater and an open neck shirt with a blue short jacket. Hardly well dressed.

Anyway I am exhausted and off up the apples and pairs....

It was this morning not 2-3 days ago!  Every single person who asked Jeremy is Sheila could use the weapons did so to find out if she posed a threat to them.  They didn't just ask the question for idle chat.  So they had reason to take note of the anser and remember it.  The fact they all have the same acocunt and that he had a reason to want them to believe she had used the weapon before supports that he did in fact tell them what they attribute to him.  All of them making the same msitake is not very credible. 

In the meantime well dressed meant he had a lot of clothes on- so many that it would have taken him a while to get dressed.  Rather unusual to be panicked about your family and take time to put on a lot more than just a shirt and jeans or short and shorts.  Moreover it was aimed at supporting Julie's assertion that he told her he had never been to bed so he was fully dressed when he called her and police.


One last question. How do you know so much about the case? I never see you in the archives. Is it that you might be an old poster who has come back to haunt us? lol

Night Sciop... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Do you mean you never see me posting material in the archives?  I read extensively what is available in the archives.  Some sections largely contain links to materials presented in other sections and thus merely act as in index.  I don't have any material to post in the archives I am limited ot the mateirals provided by others.  The statement sposted her and on the red forum were provided by others who had access to them. 

My extensive knowledge is attributatel to actually reading the mateirals as well as the claims of all sides.  If you want to understand the arguments of both sides you have to make the effort to try.  I read the available evidence and then followed that evidence where it leads. 

It's been many months now that I have been posting on red and then here.  It's not as if I learned everything there is to know in one day.  I learned things I did not know from other posters as well. I read Lomax's book but not too many others so don't know too much about what others assert.

The combination of an open mind, good memory, attention to detail and fact I read the documents more recently than most people here, who probably read them years ago, means I have a good handle on what is in the statements. I also can follow the legalese easier in the court decisions and from them can understand the issues easier so far as what each side argued and why claims were rejected.

I have only posted her under one name and only found out about this site after someone else suggested looking into this case earlier in the year.  It was someone with a pro-Jeremy stance and I kept an open mind to Jeremy being innocent based on what sounde dliek serious allegations of impropriety.  The allegations though didn't hold up to scrutiny the usual myths are the ones that were lobbed at me and after looking at everything I see no way Jeremy is inncoent.  Too many lies and railroading from police would have to have occurred and there would be evidence to establish such if it had happened. 

Minor things like typos and misrecording time on a log and other such things don't demonstrate rairoading.  The moderator could only have been successfully doctored by the lab which also would have to have erased all evidence of blood being in the muzzle of the weapon.  No evidence they did so or had a motive to do so has been found.  In the meantime the blood was found early on and determined to be human.  Police were notified of such on the 14th but they didn't have it type tested until September because they didn't appreciate the significance and thought the value was in fingerprints.  If they planted the blood instead of wasting time on fingerprints they would have had the blood type tested and not bothered with fingerprints till later.  That is the kind of stuff that shows it was not planted.  There is no evidence to support them dcotoring evidence of Sheila being free of foreign blood or GSR either.  Police thought she did it early on so quite clearly had no reaosn to hide evidence that supported their position.  If the detials are looked at carefully nothing tha thelps Jeremy can be found.

That is why the appeals flopped, the defense found nothing to establish his innocence or any legal errors in the trial process warranting a new trial.





       

     

 
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Mr. Gee

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #249 on: October 09, 2014, 09:54:AM »
It was their job not to forget and they have pocket books.
I think scipio has just recounted in another thread how that pocket books are usually made up at the end of the day and that he found it very difficult to recount everything accurately. He even pointed out discrepancies in the pocket book of Myall.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #250 on: October 09, 2014, 09:57:AM »
I think scipio has just recounted in another thread how that pocket books are usually made up at the end of the day and that he found it very difficult to recount everything accurately. He even pointed out discrepancies in the pocket book of Myall.

Maybe he has but that's a generalisation - at the time of the WHF siege, no one had any reason to make anything up.
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Mr. Gee

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #251 on: October 09, 2014, 10:00:AM »
Maybe he has but that's a generalisation - at the time of the WHF siege, no one had any reason to make anything up.
No I'm not talking about making things up. I was thinking rather of their memories. They would probably have put their heads together and said something like, "I remember him saying this, what have you got?" etc.

Offline Adam

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #252 on: October 09, 2014, 10:16:AM »
First of all he retracted it one day later.  Teh day of the murders he siad he taught her to shoot the murde rwepaon and she had fired all the guns in the house.  The next day he put in his statement he wasn't aware of her using it.

There are several reaosns why he would change it:

1)  The family said she wasn't known to take any interest in guns and hadn't fired any to their knowledge.  He didn't want his claims to conflict with the family because it might look like he was lying to frame Sheila

2) His lie already served its purpose the day of the murders which was to convice those at the scene that she was a threat to them and was responsible for the bodies they found

3) In retrospect it looks suspicious to say he decided to train someone he considered a nut and by his own admission did not get along with how to use a gun and thus sounds like a lie aimed to frame her or even suggests he was using her and they might have done it together.  Indeed one of the pieces of evidence used against hism was that June said he tried to teach Sheila how to load the magazine of the gun but she didn't want to know.  The part about not wanting to know how is damaging but so is the fact he wanted to teach her at all.  Was he just trying to get her fingerprints on it or was he trying to get her to shoot so peopel would know she could shoot?

Admitting he never saw her shoot prevented them from catching him in a lie.  He assumed his claims the day before verbally at the scene would not be compared to the written statement. It is also possible he forgot that he lied and told cops he took her shooting and that she had fired all weapons in the house before the raid took place.  It is a common thing for liars not being able to rememebr the lie they told last and thus either telling a new contradictory lie or admitting the turth forgetting they lied earlier.

Jeremy's story would change defending upon what he needed at any given time.  When he gave his first 2 statements he had no reaosn to lie and say he used the gun the weeke before the murders.  When he was being interrogated he was told how Anthony was the last known user of the gun and had found the gun with the moderator and scope attached and put it away with the moderator and scope attached.  Thus it should have had the scope and moderator when Jeremy took it out o shoot the rabbits.  He then changed his story saying he used it repeatedly the week before the murders.  Teh change was to prevent Anthony from being the last known user.  He claimed Nevill also kept using it the week prior and he sometimes removed the scope and moderator before putting it away but other times did not. This change was to make it seem possible to have found the gun without the moderator and scope. He told the truth when he didn't think it mattered or when he felt that was the best thing to do but when it a lie would help him better he would lie and make up things he felt was favorable to his position. 


 

Jeremy was lucky when testifying.

He said Sheila had 'limited' experience with guns.

The prosecution should have challenged him and made him admit that Sheila had 'no' experience with guns. And that he had 'never seen her fire a gun'. That may have resulted in a 12 - 0 verdict.

Mind you I am sure the relatives may have testified on this. Did CC testify ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #253 on: October 09, 2014, 11:38:AM »
why do you think they dident challenge him.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #254 on: October 09, 2014, 01:55:PM »
Naturally and to overcome such knowledge would require solid evidence they did in fact do it nonethless such as having blood of the victims and GSR on them and there not being a way to say it happened just by being a witness to the murders.

To an extent it could also be overcome with reliable evidence that they did in fact like guns and use them you just were unaware of it.  Though you woudl still want proof they did it not just that they had in fact used guns without your knowledge.

but colin dident thats the thing.