Author Topic: Jeremy's court testimony:  (Read 25020 times)

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Offline JackiePreece

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2014, 05:14:PM »



Waiting for your reply Adam she was so 'guilty' about the murders she decided she would go for a jolly with her mate but was annoyed that Jeremy wouldn't cough up with the his dead parents cash
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Offline Jan

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #61 on: October 07, 2014, 05:15:PM »
We have to go by what Jeremy testified in court - ' Sheila had limited knowledge of guns'.

She certainly could not re load. Twice. Anyway she had no gun residue, oil or broken finger nails. So certainly did not fire the gun.

Wait there, people claim she had a nice radox shower afterwards. But she still had to shoot herself afterwards. Twice.  Without getting any gun fire residue on her.

Adam

The swabs that were sent of Sheilas hands were refused by the lab and sent back because of possible contamination - when they were re-submitted were they the same swabs or new ones taken later?

Another question - how long were Sheilas fingernails at the time of the murder? - she normally wore false nails but they are removable - so how long were her nails - that is relevant because if they were short they could not have been broken.

Also apparently there is more than one way to load the bullets into the magazine.


Have you seen any evidence to suggest that a person who was bought up with guns around her all her life could not just by watching very easily pick up how to load such guns. She may have gone out with her father on lots of occasions - she may or may not have shot the gun ( only they would know)but she would have watched him do it. Its not rocket science.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #62 on: October 07, 2014, 05:56:PM »
Maybe she did know how to fire all the weapons in the house? There were only 3 types of weapons. There's no proof that she did of course, but I would like to rummage through the family photos. Remember it took DB long enough to remember reluctantly Sheila going to Scotland on a shooting expedition? ;)

He admitted she might have gone to Scotland with them.  He still was not certain she went let alone whether she attended the shooting event.  She could have simply gone to Scotland and not actually gone to the event.  He was certain that if she did attend the shooting event she did not shoot.

The family all said she didn't have an interest in guns so didn't make an attempt to learn how to operate them and then try to operate them.  Nor did any farm workers ever see her handle weapons. 

Ann Eaton said she could not even be taught to drive because of her poor hand eye coordination let alone would they be able to teach her to shoot.

There was evidence offered that June saw Jeremy try to teach her how to load the magazine to the murder weapon but that she rebuffed his efforts and didn't want to touch it or learn.  If she would not even want to learn that then there is little hope she would want to learn how o insert it into the weapon, chamber a round and then shoot.

Why did Jeremy lie to police at the scene by telling them he taught her how to fire the murder weapon and that she fired it and all the other weapons?  He later admitted he had never seen her fire a weapon so clearly lied to them.  Steadfast Jeremy supporters say the police lied and he never told them such but why would they lie in their notes and such to indicate he told the such?  There is nothing to support the police all lying about this.

Why didn't Jeremy tell these same police how easy it was to get in through the locked windows?  They asked if he knew a way to get in.  He consistently used the windows to get in. It was either practice or a game to him. He didn't tell them about the extra key kept in the barn either.

It is quite obvious he was both lying to police at the scene and the only reason for such is because he was responsible for the deaths.

Since this is about his court testimony one of the things I found so striking was his claim at trial he did not initially think it an emergency situation.  This was his excuse for not immediately trying to go there or dialing 999.  He said he didn't think there was any urgency or anything to worry about.

Ok so he gets a call from his father saying come quick Sheila has gone crazy and has a gun and the call gets disconnected.  He tries to call back to speak more to his father to get more information but can't get through.  He doesn't see a major problem by his sister being in a crazy rage with a gun but decides to call police to have them go check it out anyway.  Since he sees no major problem he doesn't think time is of the essence and doesn't dial 999 but rather looks up numbers.  Then while talking to police he realized it was more serious than he realized.  That was his story. 

The prosecution demonstrated he called Julie before police.  Why woud he call Julie if he wasn't worried or that concerned like he claimed?  It makes little sense to wake Julie up if you don't see any emergency or major problem.   

I personally think this testimony hurts as opposed to helping.  Is it credible you would not consider it an emeregency situation if a relative told you someone with mental problems is having a psychotic episode and has a gun? Did she ever grab a gun before and menace with it but not fire?  No no only did she never grab a gun during an episode before she had no interest in handling guns before. 

To say he didn't think it was an emergency situation in such circumstances is not credible.  His lack of concern demontrates no such call from Nevill happened, that is the only rational explanation why he would no be overly concerned at the time in question.

Saying he didn't go there or call 999 because he didn't think there was a major problem makes it hard to believe him that such a call happened. He would have been better off saying he was panicked and not thinking clearly and thus totally forgot about 999 and grabbed the phone book to immediately call the police. 

That still doesn't explain calling Julie before police though. That is a harder one to try to figure out what to make up.  He could say he called her because he wasn't sure what to do and needed her advice but why would he be unsure what to do wince he didn't view it as a pressing emergency and why wake her up to ask her for advice? It doesn't really make sense.

So he stuck with saying he called her after police despite the call to her after police not fitting the timetable. His lawyers got one roomate to say the call could have come as late as 3:30 though he did not think so. But Jeremy was on the phone with police at that time still so the call to police effectively ended after 3:30 and thus he could not have called Julie at 3:30 or after 3:30.  He had to have called prior to 3:30 and that means prior to calling police.

He hs a year in jail to think about what he could make up to support his claims.  What he came up with was pretty crappy.  But I can't think up much to help him either.  I can't think of a good reason why he would call Julie at all let alone before police.  If you receive such a call you either rush over there or call police.

His initial story is that he did that- he immediately called police.  He told that lie because that is what someone would do.  Because calling Julie first makes no sense he lied and claimed he called police first.  He maintained that lie even at trial in the face of evidence tha the called Julie first becaus ehe had no good excuse and hoped the jury would not believe the timetable police gave which established he called Julie first.  He and his lawyers felt that was better than trying to make up an excuse for calling Julie first.

I don't understand why he said that at first he was not that concerned so took his time in calling police.  That is not what he said initially.  He initially said he was panicked so called police immediately.  That is wha someone in his place receiving the alleged call would do so is a good lie.  Ruining this by saying you didn't see any urgency makes no sense to be it was a bonehead play.

Saying that undermines his claim he received a call from Nevill.   

       

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #63 on: October 07, 2014, 06:09:PM »
Adam

The swabs that were sent of Sheilas hands were refused by the lab and sent back because of possible contamination - when they were re-submitted were they the same swabs or new ones taken later?

Another question - how long were Sheilas fingernails at the time of the murder? - she normally wore false nails but they are removable - so how long were her nails - that is relevant because if they were short they could not have been broken.

Also apparently there is more than one way to load the bullets into the magazine.


Have you seen any evidence to suggest that a person who was bought up with guns around her all her life could not just by watching very easily pick up how to load such guns. She may have gone out with her father on lots of occasions - she may or may not have shot the gun ( only they would know)but she would have watched him do it. Its not rocket science.

The same swabs were resubmitted there was only 1 set of swabs taken.  The bodies were buried os how coudl new swabs be taken at that point?  They were rejected for a stupid reason and all rejection means is the lab refused to accept them and forced the police to take them back with them to the evidence storage room.  They were logged out of the evidence room to be taken to the lab, logged back into the evidence room when the lab rejected them then logged back out to be submitted to the lab yet again this time being accepted.

Photos show how long her nails are they are long enough that while bashing Nevill some likely would have broken and loading the magazine in would chip some unless loaded very slowly and carefully.

There is only one way to load the magazine.  You have to hold the magazine in one hand and take the bullet in the other and push the bullet from the front of the magazine to the back. If you do it slwoly you can avoid chipping nails of the finger pushing it.  Otherwise it will likely slip and chip against it. The last few bullets need to be pushed veyr hard especially the last round.  It is especially likely to result in slipping at that point.  She already had dexterity problems and her medicine caused tremors so she was even more likely to accidentally hit her nail against it before tkaing into acount her alleged crazy state of mind that would result in her rushing not loading the rounds slowly and very carefully.

No matter how fast she loaded them she needed to push the front of the bullet and thus to get lead on her hands. The bullet was unjacketed, the lead was exposed thus touched directly by handling the bullet.     

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jane

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #64 on: October 07, 2014, 06:14:PM »
He admitted she might have gone to Scotland with them.  He still was not certain she went let alone whether she attended the shooting event.  She could have simply gone to Scotland and not actually gone to the event.  He was certain that if she did attend the shooting event she did not shoot.

The family all said she didn't have an interest in guns so didn't make an attempt to learn how to operate them and then try to operate them.  Nor did any farm workers ever see her handle weapons. 

Ann Eaton said she could not even be taught to drive because of her poor hand eye coordination let alone would they be able to teach her to shoot.

There was evidence offered that June saw Jeremy try to teach her how to load the magazine to the murder weapon but that she rebuffed his efforts and didn't want to touch it or learn.  If she would not even want to learn that then there is little hope she would want to learn how o insert it into the weapon, chamber a round and then shoot.

Why did Jeremy lie to police at the scene by telling them he taught her how to fire the murder weapon and that she fired it and all the other weapons?  He later admitted he had never seen her fire a weapon so clearly lied to them.  Steadfast Jeremy supporters say the police lied and he never told them such but why would they lie in their notes and such to indicate he told the such?  There is nothing to support the police all lying about this.

Why didn't Jeremy tell these same police how easy it was to get in through the locked windows?  They asked if he knew a way to get in.  He consistently used the windows to get in. It was either practice or a game to him. He didn't tell them about the extra key kept in the barn either.

It is quite obvious he was both lying to police at the scene and the only reason for such is because he was responsible for the deaths.

Since this is about his court testimony one of the things I found so striking was his claim at trial he did not initially think it an emergency situation.  This was his excuse for not immediately trying to go there or dialing 999.  He said he didn't think there was any urgency or anything to worry about.

Ok so he gets a call from his father saying come quick Sheila has gone crazy and has a gun and the call gets disconnected.  He tries to call back to speak more to his father to get more information but can't get through.  He doesn't see a major problem by his sister being in a crazy rage with a gun but decides to call police to have them go check it out anyway.  Since he sees no major problem he doesn't think time is of the essence and doesn't dial 999 but rather looks up numbers.  Then while talking to police he realized it was more serious than he realized.  That was his story. 

The prosecution demonstrated he called Julie before police.  Why woud he call Julie if he wasn't worried or that concerned like he claimed?  It makes little sense to wake Julie up if you don't see any emergency or major problem.   

I personally think this testimony hurts as opposed to helping.  Is it credible you would not consider it an emeregency situation if a relative told you someone with mental problems is having a psychotic episode and has a gun? Did she ever grab a gun before and menace with it but not fire?  No no only did she never grab a gun during an episode before she had no interest in handling guns before. 

To say he didn't think it was an emergency situation in such circumstances is not credible.  His lack of concern demontrates no such call from Nevill happened, that is the only rational explanation why he would no be overly concerned at the time in question.

Saying he didn't go there or call 999 because he didn't think there was a major problem makes it hard to believe him that such a call happened. He would have been better off saying he was panicked and not thinking clearly and thus totally forgot about 999 and grabbed the phone book to immediately call the police. 

That still doesn't explain calling Julie before police though. That is a harder one to try to figure out what to make up.  He could say he called her because he wasn't sure what to do and needed her advice but why would he be unsure what to do wince he didn't view it as a pressing emergency and why wake her up to ask her for advice? It doesn't really make sense.

So he stuck with saying he called her after police despite the call to her after police not fitting the timetable. His lawyers got one roomate to say the call could have come as late as 3:30 though he did not think so. But Jeremy was on the phone with police at that time still so the call to police effectively ended after 3:30 and thus he could not have called Julie at 3:30 or after 3:30.  He had to have called prior to 3:30 and that means prior to calling police.

He hs a year in jail to think about what he could make up to support his claims.  What he came up with was pretty crappy.  But I can't think up much to help him either.  I can't think of a good reason why he would call Julie at all let alone before police.  If you receive such a call you either rush over there or call police.

His initial story is that he did that- he immediately called police.  He told that lie because that is what someone would do.  Because calling Julie first makes no sense he lied and claimed he called police first.  He maintained that lie even at trial in the face of evidence tha the called Julie first becaus ehe had no good excuse and hoped the jury would not believe the timetable police gave which established he called Julie first.  He and his lawyers felt that was better than trying to make up an excuse for calling Julie first.

I don't understand why he said that at first he was not that concerned so took his time in calling police.  That is not what he said initially.  He initially said he was panicked so called police immediately.  That is wha someone in his place receiving the alleged call would do so is a good lie.  Ruining this by saying you didn't see any urgency makes no sense to be it was a bonehead play.

Saying that undermines his claim he received a call from Nevill.   

     


Scipio, I really don't think that TOO much credence can be put on what AE says. MOST girls like Sheila are driving LONG before they're legally allowed to drive -in fact, my then husband passed his test on his 17th birthday because he'd had access to private land- so to say she couldn't because of poor hand/eye coordination suggests that her "problems" started MUCH sooner than has previously been thought. There is also the point that Ann was considerably older than Sheila and when Sheila was in her teens and stunningly beautiful, Ann was, what the county publications such as The Tatler referred to as, "a young matron."

Offline Jan

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2014, 06:32:PM »
The swabs were rejected on 9th August

here is a list of swabs taken :



(6) Hand swabs taker, at 1120hrs on Sheila Caffell’s right hand

(7) Hand swabs taken at 1120hrs on Sheila Caffell’s left hand

 Hand swabs taken at 0230 pm on Sheila Caffell’s right hand

(9) Hand swabs taken at 0230 pm on Sheila Caffell’s left hand

(10) Hand swabs taken at 0315 pm on Sheila Caffell’s right hand

(11) Hand swabs taken at 0315 pm on Sheila Caffell’s left hand





When were they re-submitted to the lab under the new reference number? Did they have a full explanation about why they could be re-submitted when the lab had rejected them?

« Last Edit: October 07, 2014, 09:45:PM by jansus »

Offline Alias

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #66 on: October 07, 2014, 07:16:PM »
Morning Mr. Gee think Colin states in his book Sheila knew nothing about guns I will check and confirm or otherwise.

Susan, Colin didn´t even know whether Sheila was left- or right-handed.

Offline susan

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #67 on: October 07, 2014, 07:20:PM »
Alias how sad is that but funny you should say that as I am both ;D ;D ;D

Offline Alias

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #68 on: October 07, 2014, 07:24:PM »
Alias how sad is that but funny you should say that as I am both ;D ;D ;D

I am too! We would make excellent drummers, susan, should we start a band?  ;D

Offline lookout

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #69 on: October 07, 2014, 07:26:PM »
Well if Sheila was left-handed,whoever arranged the rifle got it wrong.

Offline Alias

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #70 on: October 07, 2014, 07:29:PM »
Well if Sheila was left-handed,whoever arranged the rifle got it wrong.

We don´t know whether she was left or right handed (I believe?)

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #71 on: October 07, 2014, 07:31:PM »

Scipio, I really don't think that TOO much credence can be put on what AE says. MOST girls like Sheila are driving LONG before they're legally allowed to drive -in fact, my then husband passed his test on his 17th birthday because he'd had access to private land- so to say she couldn't because of poor hand/eye coordination suggests that her "problems" started MUCH sooner than has previously been thought. There is also the point that Ann was considerably older than Sheila and when Sheila was in her teens and stunningly beautiful, Ann was, what the county publications such as The Tatler referred to as, "a young matron."

Others confirmed she couldn't drive though and was clumsy.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline susan

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #72 on: October 07, 2014, 07:33:PM »
Alias hahaha good idea always thought we had loads in common ;D ;D ;D we are quite unique ;D

Mr. Gee

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #73 on: October 07, 2014, 07:33:PM »
Alias how sad is that but funny you should say that as I am both ;D ;D ;D
My old boss could write forwards with his right hand whilst writing backwards with his left hand.

Offline susan

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Re: Jeremy's court testimony:
« Reply #74 on: October 07, 2014, 07:34:PM »
Mr. Gee I can write with my left foot whilst writing with my right hand not backwards though just forward ;D ;D ;D