A Very Important Question

[JackiePreece]

theirs no way any editor would of been allowed to print a story like that about someone who had just been found innocent.

Of course not Nugs

The main topic of this thread seems to have gone off course

The authorities did not and do not want Jeremy released ever because he would be in a more powerful position to overturn his conviction

There doesn't appear to be any other cases like Jeremy's which have been changed to a full life tariff
Why Jeremy's case?

No wonder Bambergate is on a mission to expose the truth

[Patti]

Maybe Ngb can help with this

Jeremy was convicted on a 10-2 majority on circumstantial evidence

If Mugfords now deal was known about I am sure he would have walked


Nobody anywhere knows if Jeremy murdered his family

Ngb at the time Jeremy was called to the guvnors office and told his sentence had been reviewed and would now be a whole life tariff, was this unusual?

Do you know if this happened to any other people serving life for murder?

Or were the authorities determined Jeremy would never get out of prison to show people he had been wrongly convicted

Ngb do you know of any other cases that can be compared to this one

I think all prisoners had a review up to 2003 when the Home Office moved the goal posts and stopped the reviews for those who had a whole life tariff. 

Vinter and others v the UK....in the ECHR said this was an infringement of their human rights.  I am not 100% sure if this has been reinstated, and I don't think it affect Jeremy.

Hutchinson in the first case to be heard after thge ECHR ruling, but I have no idea if this is ongoing. I hope not...in all fairness. 

[Patti]

Julie was a naive 20 year old.

She would have no idea whether the public would have any interest in the trial. Or whether she would get any offer at all from the media.

To say she went through all that for 25k is wrong.

Hi Adam Julie was aware of the offer. Julie's solicitor dealt with the offer and made all the arrangements. Also, the police must have known about it because Jones phoned her in her hotel which was paid for by the NOTW to tell her the verdict. 

Had the jury known about this during the trial they may have had a different take on her story in court.  One minute crying her heart out and the other lapping it up with Champaign and receiving what was a great deal of money given the lasses age. 

[Adam]

Hi Adam Julie was aware of the offer. Julie's solicitor dealt with the offer and made all the arrangements. Also, the police must have known about it because Jones phoned her in her hotel which was paid for by the NOTW to tell her the verdict. 

Had the jury known about this during the trial they may have had a different take on her story in court.  One minute crying her heart out and the other lapping it up with Champaign and receiving what was a great deal of money given the lasses age. 

Errr. Yes I gathered that Julie knew about the offer. As the NOTW offered it to her.

Not sure what the protocol is in UK cases. The jury did not about either NOTW deal. As mentioned it is common for the big players to have pre verdict deals in place.

[JackiePreece]

I think all prisoners had a review up to 2003 when the Home Office moved the goal posts and stopped the reviews for those who had a whole life tariff. 

Vinter and others v the UK....in the ECHR said this was an infringement of their human rights.  I am not 100% sure if this has been reinstated, and I don't think it affect Jeremy.

Hutchinson in the first case to be heard after thge ECHR ruling, but I have no idea if this is ongoing. I hope not...in all fairness. 

Patti was Vintner and co have their sentances upgraded like Jeremy?
i.e. Original sentance 25 years to a whole life tariff
There must be a list of prisoners this has happened to or is it hardly anyone?

[Patti]

Patti was Vintner and co have their sentances upgraded like Jeremy?
i.e. Original sentance 25 years to a whole life tariff
There must be a list of prisoners this has happened to or is it hardly anyone?

I think they were all whole lifers. Moore, Vinter and Bamber.

Not sure on the correct figure but I believe there to be approximatively 45 whole lifers in the UK. NGB would know more than me though I am just guessing....

[Adam]

Patti was Vintner and co have their sentances upgraded like Jeremy?
i.e. Original sentance 25 years to a whole life tariff
There must be a list of prisoners this has happened to or is it hardly anyone?

Think it's around 50 prisoners.

[Patti]

Errr. Yes I gathered that Julie knew about the offer. As the NOTW offered it to her.

Not sure what the protocol is in UK cases. The jury did not about either NOTW deal. As mentioned it is common for the big players to have pre verdict deals in place.

I think its a serious offence to mislead the jury Adam. But this is only Bamber so it does not really matter about points of law....

[Adam]

It's 56 according to wikipedia.

[Patti]

It's 56 according to wikipedia.

I think you might find there are various figures Adam.....

[No-Bits]

23 prisoner's have had whole life tariffs imposed post sentencing by a Home Secretary.

Bamber is one of those 23.

[No-Bits]

23 prisoner's have had whole life tariffs imposed post sentencing by a Home Secretary.

Bamber is one of those 23.

From Wikipedia:

Shot dead his adoptive parents, sister and six-year-old twin nephews at the family farmhouse in Essex in order to claim a six-figure inheritance while also laying evidence to suggest his sister, a schizophrenic, had committed the murders before killing herself. His trial judge said in sentencing him that he found the idea of ever seeing Bamber free again "difficult to foresee", and advised that he should serve at least 25 years behind bars before release could even be considered. Bamber has nonetheless spent his sentence continuously protesting his innocence, asking for support on a website he runs from prison and seeking new evidence to launch fresh appeals. Support for his case is increasing, including backing from his MP. He is the only whole life tariff prisoner who has not accepted guilt or culpability and was also the youngest such prisoner when the original list was published. Despite the law lords' ruling in November 2002, Bamber has been told by the Home Secretary that he will never be released.

[JackiePreece]

I think they were all whole lifers. Moore, Vinter and Bamber.

Not sure on the correct figure but I believe there to be approximatively 45 whole lifers in the UK. NGB would know more than me though I am just guessing....

Patti these 45 or 50 were they all sentenced to say 25 years and then years later upgraded to whole life tariffs ?

[No-Bits]

Patti these 45 or 50 were they all sentenced to say 25 years and then years later upgraded to whole life tariffs ?

23 prisoner's were sentenced before whole life tariffs were available to be imposed, and we're subsequently awarded whole life tariffs by Home Secretaries.
The remaining 33 (approx.) prisoner's with whole life tariffs were sentenced after whole life tariffs were introduced in to legislation.

[Patti]

From Wikipedia:

Shot dead his adoptive parents, sister and six-year-old twin nephews at the family farmhouse in Essex in order to claim a six-figure inheritance while also laying evidence to suggest his sister, a schizophrenic, had committed the murders before killing herself. His trial judge said in sentencing him that he found the idea of ever seeing Bamber free again "difficult to foresee", and advised that he should serve at least 25 years behind bars before release could even be considered. Bamber has nonetheless spent his sentence continuously protesting his innocence, asking for support on a website he runs from prison and seeking new evidence to launch fresh appeals. Support for his case is increasing, including backing from his MP. He is the only whole life tariff prisoner who has not accepted guilt or culpability and was also the youngest such prisoner when the original list was published. Despite the law lords' ruling in November 2002, Bamber has been told by the Home Secretary that he will never be released.

Anyone with a heart is saddened by what happened to the Bamber family Hartley.  Sometimes one forgets them when arguing points in this awful crime.

The thing is I am not sure all the evidence fits the crime, I have a doubts and I have always lived by the rule if in doubt then don't commit to anything.  Is this such a bad thing?