Conversation about fostering. Did this take place ?

[Adam]

Jeremy is the only witness to this conversation.

A lot seemed to go on in the short period Jeremy was at WHF, the evening before the massacre.

It was late,  Sheila & June should have eaten. Neville tired after a long day.  Rather than being in bed, or in other rooms they were all apparently sitting in the kitchen.

Jeremy seemed to simultaneously notice rabbits, load the rifle, go outside, and hear discussions about fostering.

Other posters have said Sheila's medical condition meant she was most likely to react in an aggressive way straight away if fostering was mentioned.  Rather than be unresponsive and then suddenly go crazy hours later, unprovoked.

Colin Caffell had custody of the children, so Neville & June would have to speak to him. I have never read that they did.

Wasn't Sheila going to move into Jeremy's cottage ? Meaning Neville, June and other relatives would be nearby and able to assist? Something June and Neville would love doing. Not sure why fostering was needed as the twins spent most of the time with CC anyway.

I suppose Jeremy had to say something that people would think would act as a trigger for Sheila. The Folkes's said Sheila seemed happy enough at the time. I would be happy living rent free in London and going on a free summer holiday.

Sadly for the defence,  the judge said Sheila's non responsiveness to the alleged fostering conversations meant it cannot be used as a reason for the later outburst.

Do other people believe the fostering conversation took place ?

[susan]

Adam just in the middle of reading Colin Caffells book and he tells a different tale to Jeremy Bamber.  Firstly he states that in no way would Ralph Bamber leave a loaded rifle around especially when children were in the house and had Jeremy left the rifle loaded he would have moved it.  Secondly he states had Sheila shot herself she would not have done it in June's bedroom as she hated June (rather a strong word but his not mine) she would have done it in the twins room as she did love them. Jeremy admitted to him that he was mad and full of evil thoughts and he just could not help it.  Was Jeremy saying this for effect or did he believe it to be true. Some of the letters he sent to Colin were pure evil in my eyes and meant to hurt deeply. I am aware this is Colin's perception of Jeremy Bamber but guess Colin knew Sheila and Jeremy as well as anyone.  He also got the impression Sheila was frightened of Jeremy. 

[Jane]

YES, Adam. I think it HIGHLY likely that such a conversation took place and the only problem I have with now believing Jeremy to be guilty is that Sheila's plight will now get brushed under the carpet.

I was and remain convinced that by the time she visited WHF she'd become a forgotten statistic. A monthly visit to a GP hardly constitutes follow up care for someone who'd been as ill as she. Where was the counselling service which may have helped her through, not only the complexities of her daily life but the minefield of emotions associated with meeting her birth mother or accepting that with a permanent new love in his life, Colin's relationship with her would be different.

I feel utterly convinced that June and Neville WOULD have been concerned by her behaviour. Whilst I'm prepared to accept that testaments regarding her behaviour may have been exaggerated, there is enough evidence regarding it to set alarm bells ringing for me. June WAS concerned. We have Pam's word for it. What parent wouldn't have been concerned about the welfare of their grandchildren. Childcare HAD previously been used. Maybe it was thought using it again, in some way, would relieve Sheila of some of the strain.

[susan]

Morning april

I agree poor Sheila was badly let down by the system but it is my opinion that because of her condition it would have been so much easier for Jeremy Bamber to have killed her and the family and blame the horrendous crime on her.  It is a very sad state of affairs but I think her ex husband Colin knew the position regarding Sheila and her mental health.

[Jane]

Morning april

I agree poor Sheila was badly let down by the system but it is my opinion that because of her condition it would have been so much easier for Jeremy Bamber to have killed her and the family and blame the horrendous crime on her.  It is a very sad state of affairs but I think her ex husband Colin knew the position regarding Sheila and her mental health.

Susan, good morning

Certainly, I think her condition gave Jeremy the excuse to lay blame at her feet. MY concern is, that once she becomes another of his victims as opposed to the perpetrator it becomes forgotten just how ill she was.

[susan]

April I think personally that poor Sheila should be remembered as a lovely young lady who loved her Father greatly and children and was a victim of the system and her brother Jeremy Bamber.

[lookout]

 Sorry folks,but I don't think that Sheila was as " ill " as people thought, not even her psychiatrist realised it. They're not always right. It was so easy back then to dose a person up just to keep them quiet.
She's what I'd have described as just out of control,but it didn't mean to say that she should have had a powerful drug injected into her. Sheila was on the WRONG medication which had adverse effects and the poor woman had no control on her decision for it to be administered because it was injected,unlike tablet form where she at least could control her intake. Then again,a hug would have had good effect.
Sheila wasn't a stupid person,just so misunderstood and misguided, with a mother who lived in the past and who'd refused to " look ",or understand her daughters' behaviour.

I had pointed out that Sheila began being troubled at the age of 17,but I'd now say that it was after the time that she'd been told,bluntly,and with no further explanation,that she was adopted. Children naturally want to ask questions,but it was forbidden and the matter was closed.
The subject didn't appear to bother Jeremy the same,but it was something that DID worry Sheila for the remainder of her short life.
Sheila became very unsettled,unstable and also insecure that she naturally looked outside the home to find love and affection,finding,or asking for reassurance from her friends on how she looked,etc,something a daughter would turn to her mother for. How empty Sheila must have felt.
If she'd have had the love and understanding from the start,there'd have been no need for medication or psychiatrists.

Not having read CC's book yet,I'd have said that he was holding back on a lot of things concerning Sheilas' relationship with her mother,as you don't utter the words " she's finally done it " for nothing. Those few words speak volumes as far as I'm concerned. He knew far more than he'd let on about.
June didn't like Colin.June didn't like Julie. ??

There was only one sick person in that household,and that was June. That's where the fault lay.

Why talk of fostering when there were grandparents who were more than capable of looking after the twins to give Sheila a break ?? Why not ?? This is what grandparents do,isn't it ??

   

[susan]

Hello lookout  I do agree with you on some of your points I think June was the problem from the word go as her expectations of her children were unobtainable.  In saying that Jeremy was not very nice to her according to Colin and did taunt her quite a lot.  I have only Colin's word for this.  I thought he had custody of the twins could they make arrangements for fostering without his consent.

[lookout]

 Hi Susan,I think Jeremys' hi-jinks were nothing more than innocent torment such as boys were usually the culprits for. It must have helped break the sheer monotony of living in a suppressed environment.
We,as a family,were normal in comparison,but my brother used to throw worms and daddy-long-legs at me,then laugh at my screams. That,believe it or not,is normal behaviour and it's what lads did.

[lookout]

 If Colin had full custody,through the courts,then nobody can discuss fostering,unless they too go to court themselves to dispute his full custody,which I doubt they would have done. There'd have had to have been a strong argument as to why CC couldn't have had overall control.

[susan]

lookout you could be right I am just reading what Colin has said Jeremy dyed his hair different shades just to annoy June.  I think it would be to shock other than annoy.  If you get the book you can draw your own conclusions they may be different than the way I see it.

[lookout]

 It's strange,Susan,but I can pretty well judge what's in the book before even reading it.

[susan]

lookout you may well be right think you may be disappointed in the book wait till I have finished it and you can have mine for NOTHING

[lookout]

 Yes,Susan,I had an idea that it was " full of emptiness ",or me,myself and I.

[susan]

lookout I take it you are refusing my free gift then