do the fingerprints really prove anything.

[Patti]

The evidence that he got in and out is that he scratched a bathroom window to unlock it and moved everything out of the sink in orde rot climb out the kitchen window.

Such evidence is not necessary though and even without it it woudl not change the case at all.  All that is needed is to establish he had the ability to enter and exist through the windows and he proved that ability himself by admitting it and even doing so in front of police.  There is no requirement for such evidence to be beyond a reasonable doubt because such is not an element of murder- only the essential legal elements of a crime need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

The evidence I posted proves that Sheila did not kill anyone else or herself. That means someone else had to have done it. Even the defense admitted that if Sheila didn't do it Jeremy had to have done it.

Unless Sheila did it the call from Nevill to Jeremy quite obviously never happened.  So the fact Sheial didn't do it proves there was no call fro nevill to Jeremy.  Jeremy was the killer so can't have received a call nor would Nevill have had any reason to call anyone fingering Sheial unless she were the killer.

In addition, there was no way for Nevill to call anoyne.  The killer entered the master bedroom and shot both parents, that is how the incident began.  There wa sno phone in the bedroom for him to use- Jeremy took care of that by his own admission.  Nevill then fled being unable to speak as a result of his wounds.  Nevill had no opportunity to call anyone prior to the the shooting starting.  So the claim Jeremy was called prior to any shooting starting is nonsense.  The fact he was there at WHF not his house to receive any call makes it even more nonsense.

Jeremy is the only one with motive, opportunity, knowledge of the murders after they happened and he actively framed his sister including by lying baout leaving the gun in the kitchen and staging bullets that gave away he staged them because he left too many. He told his girlfriend of his plans including lying about receving a call for Nevill to use as an alibi and told her after the crimes he was responsible.

The cas eis so strong that Jeremy supporters ar eunable to refute it and instead simply live in denial and refuse to face the evidence.  Again that doesn't make it go away it must be refuted to counter it.  Just hiding from it and pretending it doesn't exist acocmplishes nothing.

Arr the famous window lock....

RWC/8  There is a good story about that. 

[susan]

Scipio do we know for sure Jeremy Bamber entered  and left the farmhouse through a window maybe he used the door. Sratches on the window mean nothing to me I was under the impression it was stated in Court to the Jury he could have entered the farm though the window not that he did. I really believe he was in the farmhouse on that dreadful night but not that is the way he entered and left just a feeling

[scipio_usmc]

Scipio do we know for sure Jeremy Bamber entered  and left the farmhouse through a window maybe he used the door. Sratches on the window mean nothing to me I was under the impression it was stated in Court to the Jury he could have entered the farm though the window not that he did. I really believe he was in the farmhouse on that dreadful night but not that is the way he entered and left just a feeling

He even used windows after the fact instead of doors so seemed to enjoy using windows.  I don't know if it was the thrill to relive the experience or what.

Whether he could have used a door to enter hinges upon whether the doors were bolted and had the key inside the locks from the inside.  For all we know a doors was not bolted and he used a key or the door they broke down did not have the key inside it and he was able to use the key to enter.  We don't know for sure what the family did so far as locking up we have only Jeremy's word of their usual habits and Jerey coudl have unbolted a door befor eleaving with no one noticing.

It is thus certainly possible he used a door to enter though I still think he probably used the window since he seemed to enjoy it.  I am convinced he didn't use a door to leave.

In order to leave through a door that would have meant he lied to police about the key being inside the door and police made the mistake of thinking it was inside the door though it wasn't.  I doubt police made the mistake though such a mistake is possible.  But in addition to police making that mistake Jeremy would have to have hoped they would make such mistake and risked them not making the mistake and seeing that a key could be used to enter and exit. I doubt he would take the risk.  I am convinced he made sure the doors were bolted and the key inside the lock then used a window to leave.   

[John]

The doors were locked and bolted from the inside and Jeremy knew they had to remain so if the blame were ever to be placed at Sheila's door.  When he went in through the window to get his passport before travelling to the south of France with his little helper he effectively gave the game away silly boy.

He thought the police would be stupid enough to fall for his ruse but he didn't count on the masterful Stan Jones being on his case.



DS Stan Jones (right) accompanies star witness Julie Mugford to court.

[scipio_usmc]

The doors were locked and bolted from the inside and Jeremy knew they had to remain so if the blame were ever to be placed at Sheila's door.  When he went in through the window to get his passport before travelling to the south of France with his little helper he effectively gave the game away silly boy.

He thought the police would be stupid enough to fall for his ruse but he didn't count on the masterful Stan Jones being on his case.

He had no need to use the window after the murders.  He either liked doing so to relive the night of the murders or was intentionally toying with police.  Either way it was a stupid thing to do.

[lookout]

Yeah !,she was loving every minute of her short spate of fame ! Who was the actor/actress then ??

[John]

He had no need to use the window after the murders.  He either liked doing so to relive the night of the murders or was intentionally toying with police.  Either way it was a stupid thing to do.

His arrogance was his undoing scipio.

[lookout]

His arrogance was his undoing scipio.

FGS,how does arrogance get you a prison sentence ? It tells me he was confident that he was telling the truth,but unfortunately,he didn't realise what he was up against. Police don't do confident !

[Jane]

Yeah !,she was loving every minute of her short spate of fame ! Who was the actor/actress then ??

HPD.

[Jane]

FGS,how does arrogance get you a prison sentence ? It tells me he was confident that he was telling the truth,but unfortunately,he didn't realise what he was up against. Police don't do confident !

In the end, it wasn't about the police, it was about the jury and what they saw. What they saw was an arrogant, cocky young man of a class that was probably anathema to most of them. They heard him say "That's for you to prove" and it may well have sealed his fate.

[lookout]

In the end, it wasn't about the police, it was about the jury and what they saw. What they saw was an arrogant, cocky young man of a class that was probably anathema to most of them. They heard him say "That's for you to prove" and it may well have sealed his fate.

By rights,his attitude should have gone right over their heads if they'd read into the psychology of the type of person he was,but instead,they USED it as part of his conviction. Very wrong !

[John]

By rights,his attitude should have gone right over their heads if they'd read into the psychology of the type of person he was,but instead,they USED it as part of his conviction. Very wrong !

No, what is very wrong is you 29 years later attempting to make him into something he never was...ever heard the saying about a silk purse and a pigs ear me dear?

He was a failed student, farmer, and diver but he did excel at being a drug dealer and a murderer.

ETA  mustn't forget trying to pimp his deceased sisters semi naked photos around Fleet St, what a nice boy!

[Jane]

By rights,his attitude should have gone right over their heads if they'd read into the psychology of the type of person he was,but instead,they USED it as part of his conviction. Very wrong !

How many jurors do you know who sit and pore over psychology tomes to ascertain the personality of the accused?

[lookout]

No, what is very wrong is you 29 years later attempting to make him into something he never was...ever heard the saying about a silk purse and a pigs ear me dear?

He was a failed student, farmer, and diver but he did excel at being a drug dealer and a murderer.

The phrase is " a sows ear ",not a pigs ear.

What's a failed student got to do with anything ? Churchill was no scholar,but look where he landed !
Farming he loved as his father was teaching him the business side which Jeremy was willing to learn for his future.
As for being a failed diver--------bunkum. What advantage would that have been in Jeremys' world anyway ?
You failed to mention that Julie was the drug smuggler,as well as a seller as she too loved money as well as the finer things in life. I didn't notice her reporting any previous drug deals,or refusing champagne and lobster------------to bedding a " murderer ".  Paid holidays too.No sign of " reporting a murderer" then,was there ?

[John]

The phrase is " a sows ear ",not a pigs ear.

What's a failed student got to do with anything ? Churchill was no scholar,but look where he landed !
Farming he loved as his father was teaching him the business side which Jeremy was willing to learn for his future.
As for being a failed diver--------bunkum. What advantage would that have been in Jeremys' world anyway ?
You failed to mention that Julie was the drug smuggler,as well as a seller as she too loved money as well as the finer things in life. I didn't notice her reporting any previous drug deals,or refusing champagne and lobster------------to bedding a " murderer ".  Paid holidays too.No sign of " reporting a murderer" then,was there ?

Yea, he was such a good farmer his father told a friend and the housekeeper that he was afraid to turn his back to his beloved Jeremy.

Don't put the blame on Mugford for the drug dealing, Jerry was doing it long before she popped in on the action.  Maybe she didn't report him as a murderer because he wasn't one at that stage.  She came through in the end though and turned Queens Evidence.