do the fingerprints really prove anything.

[No-Bits]

If that is correct - and I am not being sarcastic here - the way the rifle has been photographed /position of hands etc does look so obviously staged - for example after firing would the gun remain resting in that exact  position as it was quite a powerful rifle- why did the police not suspect something ?

The police have indicated that they moved Sheila's arm so that blood stains on her night dress could be photographed. They did not admit to moving the rifle, however it certainly appears to me that the rifles position has been adjusted slightly. It might just be the angle of the photographs, but if not, then I would assume the rifle was inadvertently repositioned whilst moving her arm.

[No-Bits]

If that is correct - and I am not being sarcastic here - the way the rifle has been photographed /position of hands etc does look so obviously staged - for example after firing would the gun remain resting in that exact  position as it was quite a powerful rifle- why did the police not suspect something ?

Yes it appears staged to me also, but note that the rifle was not particularly powerful at all, it was only a rim fire .22.

[Adam]

"She had spent half the night"

Adam - not taking into account who did it - you believe the twins and june at least were asleep - so how long do you think it would take to enter two or three rooms to shoot the victims ?

Not half the night.

If Jeremy is innocent it  all happened within approx. 40 mins? That is of course assuming that the police could hear shots from outside the house - and I still have not seen anything to say whether that has been tested.

And yes I read the police did not wear gloves when handling the rifle - so it could be that they smudged the prints on the rifle.

Well yes if it was Sheila. She did handle the rifle for a long period.

Going so crazy that Neville had to ring the police and Jeremy. Neville would have tried to calm Sheila down beforehand, with June. Oh sorry, June was asleep.

[Adam]

Yes it appears staged to me also, but note that the rifle was not particularly powerful at all, it was only a rim fire .22.

I have created threads on the rifles power. It does seem strange that Neville was so scared of a rifle used for shooting vermin. Being held by a crazy un cordinated woman  with no g7n experience.

AE saying Neville would have tackled Sheila.

[Jan]

Yes it appears staged to me also, but note that the rifle was not particularly powerful at all, it was only a rim fire .22.

Thanks for that .

So as not that powerful it would not have any kick back as such . I guess I sort of assumed that her hand/arm would fall back and the gun could roll off her body . So I would be less surprised if it had been found just in fallen to one side if you see what I mean.

[No-Bits]

Thanks for that .

So as not that powerful it would not have any kick back as such . I guess I sort of assumed that her hand/arm would fall back and the gun could roll off her body . So I would be less surprised if it had been found just in fallen to one side if you see what I mean.

Yes sort of. We also have to remember that the scene seemed quite impressive at the beginning of the investigation in terms of Sheila being responsible.  We can now look back with hindsight and it is perhaps obvious it is staged.

[lookout]

 I would imagine there'd have been a pull on the rifle being at such close quarters.

[Jan]

Yes sort of. We also have to remember that the scene seemed quite impressive at the beginning of the investigation in terms of Sheila being responsible.  We can now look back with hindsight and it is perhaps obvious it is staged.

to be honest I guess for any of us unless we have seen actual scenes or photos of similar incidences it would be hard to judge. I am not sure how common suicide with that type of weapon is.

[scipio_usmc]

jeremy worked at the farm sheila was staying there you cant date a finger print so do the fingerprints really prove anything ethere way.

Fingerprints as to what?  If you mean on the rifle obviously not since none were made in blood.  That alone though suggests gloves were worn by the person wielding the weapon because if you are bashing someone with a gun covered in blood you leave fingerprints in blood on it or other things you touch. 

If it was a crime suspected of being done by strangers then prints from strangers found in the house would be siginficant even if not in blood.  Obviously their prints around the house mean little. They had innocent reasons for such.

[nugnug]

what i mean is also sheila prints would be on the gun weather it was placed in her hand or weather she was the shooter.

jeremy adited to touching the gun earler so he his prints would be on it so prints dont prove much.

of course a lot of prints have been smeared by the gun being removed from shiela hand.

[scipio_usmc]

what i mean is also sheila prints would be on the gun weather it was placed in her hand or weather she was the shooter.

jeremy adited to touching the gun earler so he his prints would be on it so prints dont prove much.

of course a lot of prints have been smeared by the gun being removed from shiela hand.

It was Jeremy's gun so unless he spotlessly cleaned it after each use one would expect to find his print anyway. 

The killer would have been excited and would have been likely to leave prints unless wearing gloves.  The blood that got on the gun could have covered some prints but presents a bigger pitfall.  Unless wearing gloves you are going to get that blood on your hands and leave prints in blood.  That not happening is a sign gloves were worn.

The lack of bloody prints is actually more significant than the few prints found.   

[mertol22]

A direct answer I would say no alone they don't prove anything , unless im wrong I recall womens skin softer than mens skin I think female digitals are finer less course than male ones.

[scipio_usmc]

Thanks for that .

So as not that powerful it would not have any kick back as such . I guess I sort of assumed that her hand/arm would fall back and the gun could roll off her body . So I would be less surprised if it had been found just in fallen to one side if you see what I mean.

To be fair, at first police didn't know that she wasn't lying down when she was shot.  If you are completely flat and have the gun across your body and pull the trigger is it possible it will stay on your body though it is also possible it can slide off, especially the stock.

Once they appreciated the blood proved that she was seated when she was shot that is what makes it apparent the gun was staged.  Also gravity would have resulted in GSR landing on the gown had she been shot lying down so that is another sign it didn't happen. Then there is the moderator which further dashes any chance of that. 

Leaving her body seated and the gun bewteen her legs would have been a smarter thing to do because that would be more realisitic given she was shot seated but he didn't think about them being able to prove that.  When you are staging something you need to alter it as little as possible.  The more you alter the more inconsistencies you create.

[lookout]

Strange how " Taff " Jones immediately said a " domestic ",4 murders and a suicide.Police MUST know at first glance from past experience. The man didn't hesitate,so I'd like to know how he'd reached that conclusion before " things " were moved,etc.

[Mr. Gee]

I have created threads on the rifles power. It does seem strange that Neville was so scared of a rifle used for shooting vermin. Being held by a crazy un cordinated woman  with no g7n experience.

AE saying Neville would have tackled Sheila.

That is a very strange observation. Nevill won't be scared of a very small low powered rifle used for shooting game.

But if it was Jeremy it suddenly becomes a high powered hunting rifle that Nevill would run away from. Surely the common factor in this event is the rifle that hasn't changed one bit. It was a dangerous weapon no matter who was wealding it.

I wonder who would you be more afraid of, a professional gunman who was threatening you with a .22 rifle, or a toddler who had got hold of the weapon and was pointing it at you? I suspect you would still be afraid although for different reasons?