What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?

[No-Bits]

I have never seen such a picture and how do you know they are empty? You can't see inside. Jeremy confirmed that these are the buckets in question and that he has a high res picture of them in which he can see inside. The picture you're talking about is the one that Campion suggested there was something in the doorway and that the blue cloth thing near the bin might be the blue socks seen on the bedroom floor next to Sheila.

You can see the edge of what appears to be a bucket in this photograph.

As there is both a sink and the washing machine, rightly or wrongly, I had always assumed these were the buckets containing soaking clothes, rather than the buckets in the kitchen. 

[No-Bits]

while searching about the PJ top to confirm the evidence number found these .

why does it not say bullet holes on the evidence and also why does it say blood staining occurred PM and no blood stains on photos?

That is potentially misleading. It seems that the last 4 shots to Nevills head were inflicted whilst he was already dead, or had stopped struggling. Much of the blood pooling on the floor and scuttle are likely to have been caused by these wounds. He was in a position where these wounds would not have leaked on to his clothing until after his body was removed.

There was undoubtedly some staining present on the front and arms of the pyjama top prior to the removal of his body, as this was transferred to the wall on the landing and door of the kitchen.

The bullet wounds were all to Nevills front, perhaps that is why there is no mention of bullet holes in the back of his pyjamas?   

[No-Bits]

Regarding the bullet holes.

You might only expect there to be any corresponding holes in the pyjama top from bullets 7 and 8.

[Caroline]

You can see the edge of what appears to be a bucket in this photograph.

As there is both a sink and the washing machine, rightly or wrongly, I had always assumed these were the buckets containing soaking clothes, rather than the buckets in the kitchen. 

That not what Jeremy said.

[No-Bits]

That not what Jeremy said.

Maybe not,  but that's not really a reliable source of information.

[No-Bits]

Regarding the bullet holes.

You might only expect there to be any corresponding holes in the pyjama top from bullets 7 and 8.

Where are the holes to bullets 7 & 8?

It seems to me that they correspond perfectly. 

[lookout]

Hi Lookout, it sounds very confusing doesn't it?

One thing that you 'appear' to be missing, is that regardless of who was responsible for their deaths, both Nevill and Sheila were very much dead.

The lack of blood staining on Nevills clothing (if that is even accurate), doesn't indicate that he was killed by one person over another. The blood staining would/should be identical regardless of who his killer was.

Likewise with the bullet case. The spent case ejects to the right of the rifle, it appears that one went under the bed and one ricocheted and landed on the other side of Sheila's body. Regardless as to whether she committed suicide or was murdered, the rifle is in the same position and the discharge of casings is the same. Therefore, again, there is no indication of who was responsible for her death which can be gleaned from the bullet casings alone.

For a shorter version, read Adams post below.

Yes,Harters,I get your meaning.No blood.No life,as a deceased person doesn't bleed.( poor Neville,I felt so sorry for that man )
Very little on Sheila too considering that final shot.?

[No-Bits]

Yes,Harters,I get your meaning.No blood.No life,as a deceased person doesn't bleed.( poor Neville,I felt so sorry for that man )
Very little on Sheila too considering that final shot.?

Haha, no, that isn't what I meant at all.

[lookout]

 I'll put this as delicately as I possibly can. Apologies if anyone is offended.

That when a person dies in the lateral position,and if they're moved on their side,air escapes from within their mouth which gives the impression,to some,that they're still alive. It sounds almost like a gasp for breath,and unless you've had previous experience of this happening,a person who doesn't realise what's happening could possibly try and bring them back to life,as it can sound like choking.

I still have to wonder if this happened with Sheila,as in the last throes of dying,that choking could be heard,and that one of the officers put her on her side thinking that she could be saved.?

If this had been the case,then Sheila couldn't have been dead for very long,as this doesn't occur if it's hours later,only within an hour or two of death. The way to tell how long a person has died in this case,is by the amount of blood,a small amount indicates that they haven't been dead for long,as in death,the heart stops pumping anyway. If there was obviously a large amount of blood,then they'd been dead longer allowing for leakage from wounds as opposed to blood having been pumped out. 

[No-Bits]

I'll put this as delicately as I possibly can. Apologies if anyone is offended.

That when a person dies in the lateral position,and if they're moved on their side,air escapes from within their mouth which gives the impression,to some,that they're still alive. It sounds almost like a gasp for breath,and unless you've had previous experience of this happening,a person who doesn't realise what's happening could possibly try and bring them back to life,as it can sound like choking.

I still have to wonder if this happened with Sheila,as in the last throes of dying,that choking could be heard,and that one of the officers put her on her side thinking that she could be saved.?

If this had been the case,then Sheila couldn't have been dead for very long,as this doesn't occur if it's hours later,only within an hour or two of death. The way to tell how long a person has died in this case,is by the amount of blood,a small amount indicates that they haven't been dead for long,as in death,the heart stops pumping anyway. If there was obviously a large amount of blood,then they'd been dead longer allowing for leakage from wounds as opposed to blood having been pumped out.

There is no evidence any of that occurred. In fact there is considerable evidence available which shows that it did not.

[Jan]

thank you for answers.

they do refer to one of them as a wear hole?

Did they not recognise them as caused by the bullets ?

Also what about the burn holes were they above the neck of they pyjamas?

I understand your comments about the casings - I was really trying to establish how they came out of the rifle. Because of the position Adam described as she was being shot.

I would have thought that someone firing a gun under someones  neck could be in a slightly different position to some one awkwardly trying to do it themselves . It was quite a long weapon after all .

[No-Bits]

thank you for answers.

they do refer to one of them as a wear hole?

Did they not recognise them as caused by the bullets ?

Also what about the burn holes were they above the neck of they pyjamas?

I understand your comments about the casings - I was really trying to establish how they came out of the rifle. Because of the position Adam described as she was being shot.

I would have thought that someone firing a gun under someones  neck could be in a slightly different position to some one awkwardly trying to do it themselves . It was quite a long weapon after all .

I can only guess that the clothing was examined independently,  but I agree it is odd that they are not referred to as bullet holes, whereas it is abundantly clear to us that they are.

I understand the the pyjama top was raised up to expose the area where the burn marks were located.

The casings just eject to the right, slightly forwards and down.

[lookout]

Cigarette burn,not big enough for a bullet hole. A bullet hole would have left jagged edges.
I bet the poor man had a small burn in that area of his arm.

[Jan]

thank you again

I did google it to try and find out .

[Jan]

Cigarette burn,not big enough for a bullet hole. A bullet hole would have left jagged edges.
I bet the poor man had a small burn in that area of his arm.

to be fair you think the lab would recognise a burn mark as well .

Makes you wonder what they were thinking - all these small details are important because it does set a scene . If there was no bloodstaining in those areas it may indicate when the shots occurred etc.

Also did the holes correspond with the size of the bullets etc etc.

What happened before death and after death etc.