Personally I think Scipio should post some new threads
these threads should cover - ONE ITEM at a time that PROVES that JEREMY is guilty.
The THREAD should not cover any other subject and we can then when we see both sides of the argument decide what we think.
We can all agree to be civil if he is .
I would like him to start with the ammunition that was left out and why he thinks it is so obvious that it PROVES Jeremys guilt
I have posted the evidence many times. It is inter-related though. There is no way to just view each prong in isolation.
For instance, the fact Sheila could not have killed herself not only proves someone else committed the crime it means the call from Nevill never happened. Why would Nevill call Jeremy and blame the wrong person? Short of someone holding agun on Nevill and forcig him to finger the wrong perosn he would not do it and he would have reaosn to know they were going to kill him anyway so would be better off telling the truth in such circumstance so the person responsible can be arrested. Even the defense at trial admitted that if Sheila didn't kill everyone that means Jeremy lied about receiving a call fro Nevill and committed the murders himself.
There are other things as well that prove the call from Nevill never happened.
1) Julie said Jeremy planned to kill his family, frame Sheila and say he received a phone call from WHF. Thus the claim he received a phone call was something he made up in advance as part of a preconceived plan to kill everyone.
2) Nevill and June were shot together in the master bedroom. Jeremy made sure the phone was removed prior to the murders thus even if the killer walked in and held them at gunpoint for a while before shooting them Nevill could not have used the phone to call for help. The notion June would stay in bed as Sheila were running around crazy with a gun is bad enough. But to suggest Nevill left June alone with Sheila to call Jeremy and that Sheila disconnected the call after he got his message off, then took the phone off the hook so no one could call back and then marched him upstairs so she could shoot the parents together instead of shooting him in the kitchen when she found him on the phone is not credible.
3) Nevill had no reason to call Jeremy to ask for help. He had a better physical ability to disarm Sheila than Jeremy did, he would have had the need to disarm her immediately as to waiting 15-20 minutes for Jeremy to come even (if Jeremy even answered the phone) and she didn't even know how to use the weapon so it would be extremely unlikely she chambered a round which is a prerequisite to being able to fire the gun. In the meantime the kitchen was loaded with guns, knives and other potential weapons he coudl have used to disarm her so he would no have needed to use his bare hands just to disarm her. If he too worried to try anything himself he would have called 999 not requested an additional family member to come place his life at risk.
4) Jeremy's reactions were not the reactions of someone receiving such a call. Someone receiving such a call would either get dressed and rush over or to call 999. He did neither. He called Julie and told her he had not been to bed yet and that his plan, tha the told her in a previous call that night that he was going to implement that night, was working well. Calling Julie period makes no sense but callin gher before police demonstrates even more that he had not received and emergency call and was not worried about the safety of his family. If he actually received a call and were worried about the safety of his family he would have either rushed over or dialed 999. Even after speaking to Julie he did not dial 999. Instead he wasted time looking up the numbers of police stations. He said no one answered the phone at the local station it just rang and rang. Surely at that point he would call 999. No he looke dup another station further away instead and not only wasted more time looking it up he risked again no one being there to man the phones. Quite clearly he knew there was no emergency.
5) After calling police and going to WHF at their request he drove slowly and not only let police pass him, he drove the last mile of the trip quite slowly so that police could arrive first and see him arrive. Worse yet, after arriving he didn't tell police he could get in through the windows, nor did he press them to go knock at the door. The police questioned him about the guns in the house, whether SHeila coudl use them and whether Sheila would be likely to shoot at police if they went to the door and Jeremy was with them. They wanted to know if he could calm her and keep her from shooting them. Jeremy lied and told them she knew how to use/had fired every weapon in the house. He also told them that he did not get along well with her and they did not like eachother. As a result instead of going to knock at the door and risk being shot if she opened it, they called for armed assistance. Jerey in the meantime was very calm and talked about cars and guy stuff in between hamming it up about how crazy his sister was. Jeremy's lies and behavior was not that of someone concerned for his family.
6) Around 5:45AM Jeremy asked to call Julie and far from telling her he was worried about his family he told her not to go to work because she would need to talk to police and confirm he called her to express concern after receiving a call from Nevill. He wanted her to talk to police and help buttress his fictional alibi he received a call from Nevill.
7) Jeremy did other things to frame Sheila beyond just lie about receiving a call from Nevill fingering her. He made up the claim that he had taken the gun out to shoot rabbits and left the gun and bullets in the kitchen. He suggested Sheila found and used the weapon as a result of him leaving it out. He clearly made this tale up though because:
A) He staged the bullets after the murders to support his story but staged too many bullets. He staged a box that could hold 50 bullets max, claimed it was full or near full when he took it out and that the fact it was not full or near full anymore shows the killer used this supply to commit the murders. But if the killer had used it to fire the 25 shots then no more than 25 would have remained. There were 30 remaining he staged too many and in the process revealed he staged them. her eis no way the killer would have used 20 bullets form this supply and with 30 still remaining then decide to go to the closet to get another 5 bullets.
B) He was never known to use the gun to shoot a rabbits he used it only to shoot targets. He was opposed to shooting animals. So his account of getting it out to shoot rabbits is highly suspicious.
C) His account of hearing the rabbits or seeing them far away as it was getting dark (he kept changign hsi story of how he knew about the rabbits) is even less credible.
D) His account that the rifle had been stored without the moderator and scope attached at not credible at all either. There wa sno reaosn to remove either and someome would not want to remove them they would want to leave them attached to use anytime the gun was used. The only reason to reove the scope would be for close quarter shooting like the murders. Jeremy even lied initially and claimed the gun could not be stored with the scope and moderator attached to try to make it seem plausible he would find the gun like that. These lies were because he didn't want them to know the moderator was used in the commission of the crimes and he didn't want them to know he removed the scope in anticipation of committing the murders.
E) Had he actually gotten the gun to shoot rabbits he would have wanted the moderator and scope attached.
F) June was on the phone and would have seen the pile of spilled bullets next to it, she would nto have left them there. Nor woudl she or Nevill have left the gun and loaded magazine in the kitchen before going to bed. Even when the boys were not there, he was careful with his weapons according to witnesses so surely with the boys staying would not have left it out.
G) Jeremy would have had survivors guilt if his family were actually murdered. He also would have had even more severe guilt if he really did leave the gun and bullets out and it such were used in the crime because it means he was partially responsible. That is even stronger than just ordinary survivor guilt. Yet he expressed no such feelings to anyone after the bodies were found.
All of these things together combined establish Jeremy's tale of receiving a call from Nevill were false. Viewing each thing in isolation is improper and what Jeremy supporters want to do because the weight of the evidence combined is so overwhelming. Jeremy supporters would like to deal with one little thing at a time in isolation because it is far easier to attack that way than it is to try attacking the evidenc ein full.
I didn't present the entire case. I just presented all the issues that should be evaluated and looked at to assess Jeremy's claim he received a call from Nevill.
