I'm aware of what they state. However, I don't know much about Pc West, so I don't assume that what he did is what I would do in a similar situation if I were a police officer. There is a log that states "One dead male and one dead female in kitchen." Somewhat inventive explanations of why that was logged have been put forward, but the straightforward explanation is that it was true.
You are ignoring what West and Bonnett's logs state and in fact thoroughly misrepresenting what they state. Far form being straightforward you are being thoroughly dishonest. You are making arguments that make no sense at all and can't be characterized as anything but sheer nonsense. The invetive stories are coming from you. Bonnett's log clearly states that the message was passed by Nevill to Jeremy and then Jeremy to PC West. You distort to pretend that he was just claiming Jeremy passed a message about shotguns. You distort to pretend that Jeremy didn't call police until 3:36AM and wa son the phone for just a couple of minutes to pretend that th epolice were dispatched prior to Jeremy calling even though West, Bonnett say they dispatched them as a result of Jeremy's call and the police who responded say they were told they were responding because of Jeremy's call.
Jeremy said he was put on hold and the acocunt of why from police was to contact Bonnett and arrange for police to go there. This alone disputes your nonsense. You are ignoring all evidence and just making things up.
Now you are changing the subject and going off about different logs. You are making more nonsense claims about those logs. It makes no difference AT ALL that someone far form the scene messed up and thought there were 2 bodies in the kitchen. We know for a fact that it is not true because the physical evidence proves that the 2 females in the house were in the master bedroom. The blood evidence, among other evidence proves they were killed in the bedroom and that there bodies were not moved somewhere else. You are ignoring that evidence and suggesting that one of their bodies was moved by police to the bedroom and this means police can't be trusted. Your games are for naught again all you are doing is demonstrating you are too biased to be honest and rational.
That would imply a considerable amount of subsequent wrong-doing by the police and others, which, whilst deplorable, isn't implausible in certain exceptional circumstances. Thus, I have to consider that EP may have chosen not to release documents that would expose such wrong-doing, hoping that what remains will be seen as "normal police work" that doesn't point towards a miscarriage of justice having occurred. Similarly, I have to consider the possibility that various people were told not to mention various facts in their statements and evidence, and that some statements may have been altered after being made. If you take this into account, it might be easier for you to understand that I'm not setting out to be dishonest, nor am I deliberately proposing anything absurd.
You are being dishonest. Far from the log that erroenously suggested 2 bodies in the kitchen being evidence of wrongdoing it is simply evidence of miscommunication between officers.
There is nothing at all that suggests Nevill made a call and it was covere dup the entire tale is an invention of yours simply. It makes no difference that Mike made up parts of it before you and that you changed it up it is an invention of yours not something supported by any evidence.
You ignore a vast amount of evidence tha tproves your claim fiction and even ignore common sense. Your claim that it saved time to ask Jeremy all the same things already obtained from Nevill is not only a lie but a very stupid lie. What would have saved time was to tell Jeremy they already received a call from Nevill, already dispatched police and to leave it at that. That owuld have been short and sweet. Instead yo0u dishonestly say it saved tome to hide from Jeremy that his father had called and to take down all the inforation form him and even put him on hold to pretend they were dispatching a car so he would think the car was dispatched because of his call. your claims are ludicrous. Your attempt to say you are on solid ground in suspecting they did such and were covering things up is a joke.
I didn't say he "made it up". He compared the logs before I'd seen them and made comments about them (which I read) before posting copies of them. Though the logs don't prove that Nevill called the police, there are various differences between them that point in that direction when considered in isolation.
This is another blatant lie. The differences between Bonnet's log and West's log don't point to a call having been made by Nevill.
You failed miserably in explaining how or why those differences point to Nevill calling police let alone demonstrating the difference suggest such.
1 log says 26 while another says 27 for Sheila's age. West is the one who told Bonnett Sheila's age. What does that mean? The universe of possiiblities are:
1) West wrote down a different age than he told Bonnett
2) West told Bonnett the same age he wrote down but Bonnett misunderstood and wrote a different age than West said.
Those are the only possiblities. How does either of these suggest Nevill called? I challenged you time and again to explain how either suggests a call by Nevill. You were unable to do so because neither does.
You made a GIANT LEAP to argue that the age difference suggests a call from Nevill. That giant leap is that there is another log out there by West which was destroyed. On that log he wrote age 26 and thus he told Bonnett age 26 and Bonnett wrote down age 26. You then make another GIANT LEAP and say that this log you have no proof exists means someone else called prior to Jeremy and tha tit had to be Nevill.
The same tortured logic is applied to other dminor differences between West's log and Bonnett's log.
In addition you ignore the plain language of Bonnett's log which says Jeremy passed the message about Sheila going crazy with a gun to West and say that such sentence doesn' refer to such though it clearly references the message being passed before the phone was disconnected. You intentionally distort Bonnett's log to pretend that he simply was saying that Jeremy passed a message about shotguns though that makes no sense at all and would have been written in a single sentence if that were the case.
You are not using logic you are distorting to the Nth degree to pretend the logs suggest a call from nevill to police when in fact they suggest nothing of the sort.
"differences between them that point in that direction when considered in isolation"
In isolation the differences suggest nothing of the sort. Indeed you are making up the notion there is an additional West log out there with age 26 wirtten on it and the precise language on Bonnett's log verbatim. That is not looking at them in isolation when you are pretending there is another log and that is required for your nonsense to have any support at all.
Looking in isolation doesn't support your claims at all and when looking at all available evidence not just in isolation it puts your nonsense speculation to bed completely.
I am therefore considering whether such a call is impossible or absurd, or is something that could have occurred and then been kept hidden by the police. I'm particularly cautious about drawing conclusions of absurdity that are based on statements produced in September 1985 or later.
Your claims are absurd simply based on logic and you are are intentionally lying to pretend you have logic on your side.
It is already stupid enough to claim Nevill would call Jeremy and then call police too. He would have just called the police. It is even worse to suggest that instead of calling 999 Nevill would look up the number of a station not even local to his town and thus end up speaking to West right after Jeremy did. But it is worst of all to suggest that West would decide that instead of making his life easy and telling Jeremy not to worry that his father already called and that police had already been dispatched that instead he decided to conceal that Nevill had phoned in case down the road police wanted to pretend Nevill's call never happened and use Jeremy's call to frame him and thus and thus he asked Jeremy for Nevill's name, address, phone number, Sheila's name and age and all the rest of the information already obtained so Jeremy would not realize Nevill had called. He also put Jeremy on hold and pretended he arranged to dispatch police so Jeremy would be unaware they dispatched police prior. This is just ludicrous. So ludicrous that someone who honestly believed such should seek psychiatric help. But you clearly don't believe this garbage you are jsut trying to sell this crap to us but the only people willing to buy it are people so desperate to pretend Jeremy didn't do it that they will accept anything favorable no matter how lacking in evidentiary support or logic.
As explained, my intention is not to interpret them wrongly, but to consider a particular interpretation originally proposed by MT.
While you claim such you are obviously lying. Your intention is indeed to distort and you have done so again and again and again.
It doesn't. You've inserted the word "above" that isn't in the log and significantly alters the meaning of the sentence. I'm not assuming that Bonnett was intent on writing fully-punctuated perfect English. As he wrote "message passed", not "A message was passed" or "The following message was passed", it is plausible that he was writing notes that reflected the order in which events were described to him. In that case, use of "." instead of ":" is minor mispunctuation, not proof that the second sentence wasn't the message referred to in the first sentence.
It wasn't. You have inserted the word "preceding", which suits your interpretation, but isn't necessarily what Bonnett meant. You explained why you think that "preceding" was meant, but your reasoning is not proof. You have declined to provide a plausible full conversation between Pc West and Malcolm Bonnett that is consistent with your point of view.
You are changing the meaning of Bonnett's words not me. You are adding things not me.
There is a full sentence that says message passed to CD by Mr Bamber's son after the phone was disconnected. What message was passed to the DD after the phone was disconnected? The message on the sheet of course.
If Bonnett meant to write that Bmaber's son passed a message that there was a shotgun collection at the farm he would have done so in a single sentence. You are the one twisting to pretend that bonnett's log says something it doesn't. Not only do you ignore the plain language Bonnett gave statements where he confrimed that is what the log means. The log contains a message Nevill supposedly passed to Jeremy that Jeremy then passed to West. You have dishonestly suggested that Bonnett didn't mean that though it is clear and dishonestly suggested Bonnett hasn't calrified that is what he meant when he wrote the log. You are just being thoroughly dishonest and doing so intentionally because you are so biased.
I have no need to detail the conversation between Bonnett and West so as to try to time it out, it serves no purpose for me to bother. I don't have to do it to establish your lies and nonsense as lies and nonsense I already did so.
Your dishonesty is not even a question at this point. You have no credibility whatsoever and like Mike I would not even trust you if you said the sky was blue. You are the only other person here who has earned such regard as a result of intentionally distorting beyond all reason.
The exact wording is not known, but Pc West's log suggests it was "Please come over. Your sister has gone gone crazy and has the gun." or very similar to that.
Not quite. His log has various differences in the wording: "berserk" instead of "crazy", "daughter" instead of "your sister", "one of my guns" instead of "the gun", inserting "aged 26 yrs" and omitting "Please come over".
All of which differences merely indicate either: 1) West used different words than he wrote down when he spoke to Bonnett and/or 2) Bonnett wrote down different words than West used. That is all the differences indicate. Mike's allegation is not supported by any evidence but suggests that Nevill called Bonnett directly. There is no West as a middleman in his scenario and that makes all the difference in the World. In his scenario the different language is because Bonnett wrote down a message from Nevill while West wrote down a message passed from Jeremy.
Your scenario is that Bonnett wrote down a message passed from West which is the truth. HOWEVER you make the GIANT LEAP that such message was passed to West from Nevill not from Jeremy. There is no way for Bonnett's log to indicate a message passed form Nevill to West except by stating: message passed to West from Nevill. It says the message was passed from Jeremy though and Bonnett and West insist the message was passed by Jeremy and all the evidence supports their claim.
You have nothing at all to dispute their claims, NOTHING. Your argument that the differences in wording proves there is another West log out there reflecting a call directly from Nevill is absurd nonsense.
Regarding the 10 minutes you have referred to, I am suggesting that Nevill may have called the police after hanging up on Jeremy. I'm not suggesting Nevill delayed for 10 minutes, but a short delay, with the handset off-hook, can't be ruled out.
Leaving the phone off the hook to wait a bit before phoning police is senseless and absurd liek all your suggestions. This snesless act is contrived to make Jeremy's claim he phoned back and the phone was busy plausible. The one inventing things and making up excuses out of bias is you not me. I don't have to twist anything just view all the evidence rationally.
On the other hand, I am suggesting that there was a period of around 6 to 14 minutes between when Jeremy received Nevill's call and when Jeremy called Pc West. In that period, Jeremy was probably (a) pausing briefly, (b) trying to ring Nevill back several times, (c) calling Julie, (d) speaking to Julie, (e) again pausing, uncertain how to proceed, (f) getting dressed, and (g) finding the number for Chelmsford police station. He may also have found the number for Witham police station and tried that number, but he didn't recall doing that when interviewed in September 1985. This scenario is, of course, not produced directly from Jeremy's first statement, which couldn't have been accurate about this period.
Jeremy was probably already dressed, so around a minute would have sufficed for him to go out to his car. Regarding Jeremy's speed, MT drove the entire distance in 7 minutes 17 seconds. If the point where Jeremy was overtaken was a mile prior to WHF, as alleged by the police, MT took about 5 1/2 minutes to reach the point where Jeremy was overtaken. I think Jeremy would have taken a bit longer, as he had to leave his house, get into and start his car, etc. Hence I estimate 6 to 7 minutes for Jeremy, which is consistent with Jeremy's call to Pc West having ended at about 3:41am, just before 03:42, the time logged by Pc West for the WHF line-check. You say Jeremy told police he stopped after being overtaken to put on more clothing because he was cold. I haven't seen a police statement that confirms this, but if it's true, it explains why Jeremy took a minute or two longer to reach WHF than would otherwise be the case, which is consistent with the estimate given by the police that they waited near WHF for several minutes before Jeremy arrived.
Jeremy said he tried to call his father but since th ephone was busy he looked up the police numbers and phoned police. That is what someone in his position would have done. Instead he called Julie as you admit and then lied about calling her before calling police. That right there says a great deal about his mindset. Far from being worried he was busy trying to get her to support his alibi of having received a call from Nevill. He had no reaosn to call her at all let alone before calling police. The evidence is tha the called her before the time he even claimed Nevill phoned him.
That is why you made up the BS about Nevill calling police because otherwise it is obvious no call was made to Jeremy and that Nevill was dead already by the time Jeremy claimed to have received a call. Jeremy's claims are he got dressed after calling police. You say he got dressed before to try to fit your timetable of him being able to phone police at 3:36 and still being able to be able to be passed by police at 3:45-3:38. That still doesn't work though, Jeremy could not have gotten off the phone at 3:42 an dmade it there to be passed no matter how bad you wish.
All you are doing is distorting trmendously to pretend Nevill called though all the evidence proves he was killed by Jeremy before Jeremy even claimed to receive a call. It is impossible Sheila killed everyone else without getting their blood and GSR oin her clothign and body, impossible she shot herself without getting GSR on her clothing and impossible she shot herself then after she was dead she moved her body flat, played with the bible then put the moderator away.
Your games are for naught they just demonstrate the lengths to which you will distort they don't help Jeremy at all.
