Author Topic: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll  (Read 58614 times)

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No-Bits

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2014, 01:20:PM »
The poll results seem fairly conclusive.  :-\

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #46 on: September 09, 2014, 01:21:PM »
No, there wasn't and couldn't have been a year of planning, I think that's just what some people like to say.

"Oh no, it wasn't Jeremy, if he planned it for a year then there wouldn't have been any mistakes"  ::)

However much planning there was, the most obvious mistake is that he underestimated the killing power of the .22 rifle.

He called Julie about 3am 'ish' and the police at about 3:20am 'ish'.


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Offline Caroline

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #47 on: September 09, 2014, 01:42:PM »
The poll results seem fairly conclusive.  :-\

Yep  - I would say so!!
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Offline lookout

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #48 on: September 09, 2014, 01:46:PM »
The poll results seem fairly conclusive.  :-\





Doesn't mean a thing,Harters. :)

Offline Caroline

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #49 on: September 09, 2014, 01:48:PM »




Doesn't mean a thing,Harters. :)

It means the majority of current posters don't believe Neville called the police.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline lookout

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #50 on: September 09, 2014, 01:53:PM »
It means the majority of current posters don't believe Neville called the police.





Oh okay,sure, foregone conclusion really------------but it's not over 'till the fat lady sings. ;D

Offline Caroline

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2014, 02:06:PM »




Oh okay,sure, foregone conclusion really------------but it's not over 'till the fat lady sings. ;D

Is that an Aria I hear?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2014, 02:17:PM »
How many regular posters use this forum 12, 20 ?
That's thousands of people think he is guilty ???
"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" Winston Churchill

Offline lookout

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2014, 02:17:PM »
Is that an Aria I hear?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D





Yes,if you like. The refrain from spitting. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Caroline

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2014, 02:48:PM »
How many regular posters use this forum 12, 20 ?
That's thousands of people think he is guilty ???

The 'thousands' that I referred to aren't interested in him so they would have no need to post here or anywhere else. They are comfortable in the knowledge that he's locked up. There are around 64 million people living in this country, most won't even know who Jeremy Bamber is, of those who do, the majority will believe he's guilty or there would be far more interest in this forum. There may be thousands of people who think he could be innocent but there will be a whole lot more who think he's where he should be.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #55 on: September 09, 2014, 03:14:PM »
I don't think he did plan it a year in advance. I think he talked about killing his parents but I don't think there was much planning involved because of all the mistakes he made.

By the way, who do you think he called first?

Based on what he told Julie his planning for most of the time was just in the initial stages.  It doesn't look like he put tremendous effort into the fire plan. He never got to the finer details so far as we know and he abandoned that plan when he tried to get to the finer details.

He took what in he eyes of the law are known as steps in furtherance of his plan.  Buying the gun was an example.  But even after the gun was purchased that doesn't mean he had thought of everything he could with respect to the finer details.  But he told the farmhands there is no way he would share things with his sister so it shows he early on decided to kill everyone.  The main details he thought up were to shoot everyone and blame it on Sheila.

Obviously that means everyone had to be staying at WHF at the time so it would take a while before the sitatuation was in place for him to implement his plan.  That meant he had plenty of time to think about things in the broad sense but didn't have to think about the finer details until close to the event.

Many of the things that screwed him are things he thought up and planned. We have no way to know when he thought up the idea of pretending Nevill phoned him or calling Julie to buttress his acocunt he received a call from Nevill.  We only know when he told Julie he planned to do such.  Which shows he wasn't just telling Julie he wanted to kill them he actually told her plans so she should have had a clue he was really contemplating it.  We don't know when he came up with the idea of pretending he left the rifle and bullets out and decided he would stage the bullets.  We don't know whether he planned in advance to take the moderator off or he he just took it off after he realized it would be too long for Sheila to kill herself with it.  Putting it away suggest to me he planned it all along because otherwise he could have left it next to her.  He didn't want police to know it was used at all because a crazy person planning to kill everyone and committ suicide would not care if anyone wakes up. 

Other details were how he would travel there, how to dispose of the clothes he used and things of that sort.  How early did he decide to use a bike?  We just know when he told Julie he decided to use a bike.  When did he decide to use the windows to enter and exit? We can't be sure.  So we have no way to know for how long he planned various aspects before telling Julie.

Planning for a long time doesn't mean something is a good idea though.  Clearly the call to Julie wasn't a great idea because he had no valid reason for making such call.  He didn't plan out the call from Nevill well enough to have a way to prove a call was placed from WHF to Goldhanger.  He assumed people would just believe it happened based on him saying so and calling Julie after he claimed he received it. 

Thinking a long time about something doesn't mean you will think of everything important or plan correctly.  He clearly did not think about things like Sheial should have had backspatter on her clothing, drawback, GSR and he is in good company because it is rare that criminals think about such beyond getting rid of their clothing containing such though they don't even always get a chance to do that or do it even when they have the time.  In the Amityville murder case, the son went to work in the same pants he wore during the murders, and stayed in them when he claimed to find the bodies and police were summoned, he only changed his shirt.  His pants were dark so he didn't notice the high velocity spatter on them. There are tons of examples of things like that. 

What planning did he implement in advance?

1) The overall plan to kill them at night with the house locked up entering and exiting through the windows so it would seem that it had to be someone inside the house that comitted the crimes
2) To use a semiautomatic gun and thus had his father buy one
3) To attribute it to Sheila's mentall illness thus make it look like a murder suicide
4) To kill everyone including his nephews so that he would get the full inheritance
5) To use a bike a took his mother's bike to his place shortly before the murders
6) To use gloves so he would not leave any prints
7) To wash up and change his clothing after
8) To call police and say he received a call from Nevill that Sheila had gone crazy and had the murder weapon in her hands
9) To use the mdoerator so no one in other rooms would wake up and make his life more difficult. 

We don't know much about how detailed beyond his he thought about it.  The most important part of his plan was that everyone needed to be at WHF to pull it off so that determined when he could do it.  That explains why it took so long before he could do it, not that he was waiting in order to do meticulous planning.

Truly meticulous planning would have featured thinking up how to plant GSR and blood evidence from the victims on Sheila in a way that would not reveal it had been planted.  Planning for a year doesn't mean you have the foresight to think of such or skill to think of a way to do it.  It is folly to think that had he thought about it long enough his plan would have been flawless, he picked some bad ideas that seemed great to him but he didn't think abou how him calling police implicates him if it came to pass that Sheila didn't do it.  His attempts to frame Sheila all backfired including staging too many bullets in the kitchen and his non credible account of leaving the murder weapon out with such bullets.  Smart planning requires more than just time, it requires having the requisite knowledge to think up the perfect plan and to consider all contingencies.  There is a military saying, "no plan survives first contact intact".  First contact is when you first come into contact with enemy forces. Something always happens differently than planned and then you have to stray from the original plan.

We have no way to know what things Jeremy did simply because things did not work out as he originally planned.  That would be the more interesitng thing, to hear from him how things changed as the situation was fluid.  It is morbid to say that but it is interesting nonetheless.   

   


Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2014, 03:26:PM »
How many regular posters use this forum 12, 20 ?
That's thousands of people think he is guilty ???

1) The people that use this forum have more interest and knowledge than most so SHOULD be able to give a more informed opinion than people on the street who don't even know who Jeremy is or if they do know barely know anything about the case.

2) His advocates here who assert Nevill made a call are few and these few can't provide any evidence that suggests Nevill called police and apparently can't even provide a rational reason for believing Nevill made a call.

Not only is it asked what people believe but why and the why is what is most significant. My posts are attacked for being so long.  They are long in part because I am able to articulate why I believe what I assert.  No one ever has to try to guess the basis of my positions.  I put the basis out there for all to see so they can understand my position and try to refute it.

The most important questions for those who assert Nevill phoned police are:

1) why would West and Bonnett have not dispatched a car in response to Nevill's call?  The police were clearly called to respond on the basis of Jeremy's call not a call from anyone else.

2) Why would West ask Jeremy for information he already would have gotten from Nevill?  West clearly asked Jeremy for Sheila's name, age, the address and phone number of WHF, who was at WHF and other questions that Nevill alreayd would have answered.  Why would West ask such instead of telling Jeremy he already knew about the situation because he already spoke to Nevill?

Those who suggest Nevill called have to answer these questions and unless they have plausible answers then they have no reasonable way to suggest their position is plausible.

 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

No-Bits

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2014, 03:41:PM »
1) The people that use this forum have more interest and knowledge than most so SHOULD be able to give a more informed opinion than people on the street who don't even know who Jeremy is or if they do know barely know anything about the case.

2) His advocates here who assert Nevill made a call are few and these few can't provide any evidence that suggests Nevill called police and apparently can't even provide a rational reason for believing Nevill made a call.

Not only is it asked what people believe but why and the why is what is most significant. My posts are attacked for being so long.  They are long in part because I am able to articulate why I believe what I assert.  No one ever has to try to guess the basis of my positions.  I put the basis out there for all to see so they can understand my position and try to refute it.

The most important questions for those who assert Nevill phoned police are:

1) why would West and Bonnett have not dispatched a car in response to Nevill's call?  The police were clearly called to respond on the basis of Jeremy's call not a call from anyone else.

2) Why would West ask Jeremy for information he already would have gotten from Nevill?  West clearly asked Jeremy for Sheila's name, age, the address and phone number of WHF, who was at WHF and other questions that Nevill alreayd would have answered.  Why would West ask such instead of telling Jeremy he already knew about the situation because he already spoke to Nevill?

Those who suggest Nevill called have to answer these questions and unless they have plausible answers then they have no reasonable way to suggest their position is plausible.

The main reason why there are a number of people who are knowledgeable about the case, is due to the documents released by those trying to convince people that Jeremy is innocent.
It is somewhat ironic that such a large proportion of those who have joined this forum, have determined that Jeremy is actually guilty.

Offline lookout

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2014, 03:57:PM »
A car was sent out and it arrived minutes before the car after Jeremys' call.
To the idiot who used that cream phone in the kitchen,after 7.30am,it would have cancelled out any previous call which would have been Nevilles',or possibly even Sheila,we don't know. Sometimes,some officers haven't got the sense they were born with. ::)

guest154

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Re: A Call To Essex Police From Neville? - The poll
« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2014, 04:02:PM »
The main reason why there are a number of people who are knowledgeable about the case, is due to the documents released by those trying to convince people that Jeremy is innocent.


That's true and quite ironic. The more that is released the worst it seems to get for Bamber as his claims fall further apart. I've never been in higher opinion that he is guilty than I am today and have become over the last 12 months.