Author Topic: The Week of the Murders  (Read 28567 times)

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Offline nugnug

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2014, 10:42:PM »
In fairness to lookout,it IS stated in one of Sheila's psychiatrist statements that Sheila had relayed to him that she feared that one of her boys in particular was a woman hater and may rape her. And that she felt that she was capable of murdering her boys,so that is not a lie. And isn't calling people a liar against forum rules?

i thought i was agianst forum rules to.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2014, 10:45:PM »
In fairness to lookout,it IS stated in one of Sheila's psychiatrist statements that Sheila had relayed to him that she feared that one of her boys in particular was a woman hater and may rape her. And that she felt that she was capable of murdering her boys,so that is not a lie. And isn't calling people a liar against forum rules?

Post where she stated she felt she was capable of murdering her boys. Lookout's claim that she said she wanted to kill her boys and mother was indeed a lie and not even close to anything she stated.

Her comments about her having delusions that they could harm her were all before she started her treatment but still nothing of the stort where she was going to harm them she felt they were a threat to her.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline nugnug

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2014, 10:47:PM »
Because Caroline and Scipio have shown you up as a liar and someone who refuses to admit when they are wrong, you're now trying to start with me again?

I look forward to this online stalker being rebanned. What a mistake to bring her back.


Show me what in Lookouts post is true. It's often wrong.

 somone getting somthing wrong does not make them a liar would you scream liar to somones faces if they got somthing wrong or quated  somthing you believed might not be true i doubt if you would so why say it online.

if you dont believe it take it up with scott lomax.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 11:21:PM by nugnug »

guest154

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2014, 10:49:PM »
getting somthing wrong does not make them a liar would scream liar to somones faces if they got somthing or quated you believed might not be true i doubt if you would so why say it online.

if you dont believe it take it up with scott lomax.

No, I don't believe it. Because that is NOT what Scott Lomax said. Lookout can't misquote and then use Scott as her source.


Offline lookout

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2014, 11:14:PM »
Page 42 of Lomax's book !! Read the bloody thing,don't be getting on at me.

Offline nugnug

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2014, 11:16:PM »
dont worry lookout people who have actually bothered to read the book know this.

Offline Caroline

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2014, 03:51:PM »
To probably the rudest person on this forum I will find a source if it is the truth if you find even one thousand people who think Jeremy is guilty

Keep saying it and someone might believe you one day

I am honored!! Do I get a sash and a tiriari?  ;D ;D ;D ;D

So there is no source just yet another myth being peddled as fact. Oh dear!!
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2014, 03:59:PM »
No, I don't believe it. Because that is NOT what Scott Lomax said. Lookout can't misquote and then use Scott as her source.

Let's go to the video tape (sorry that is one of the sayings of a famous local sport newscaster):

Lookout:

"For two years,Sheila had been talking about killing her mother and the children. No doubt this will appear as part of the medical reports in the next submission. For at leas four months,Sheila herself had contemplated suicide."

Lomax:

“Sheila's psychiatrist, Doctor Ferguson, wrote in his report that his patient self harmed, had expressed thoughts of a suicidal nature and told that she was capable of murdering her sons."

What Lomax left out is that the report in question was Ferguson's 1983 discharge letter where he recorded things that she talked with him about before successfully being treated.  Here is how the 2002 Appeal decision addresses such:

"In the discharge letter Dr Ferguson made reference to her morbid thoughts, which included the idea she was capable of murdering her children or communicating an ability to them to kill. He said she had spoken of suicidal thoughts although he did not regard her as a suicide risk. Miss Caffell responded to the treatment at hospital and was discharged on 10 September 1983."

So the truth is that she told Ferguson that before her treatment she had suicidal thoughts (many people do at some point in their life) and that she had delusions about her kids.  Ferguson noted that after that successful treatment she never intimated to him any thoughts about suicide or delusions about her family anymore.  The delusions she had during her relapse was about Freddie being the devil and she told Ferguson that Freddie was supplying her with narcotics.   Hence why Ferguson told Colin he didn 't think Freddie was a good influence on her.

So let's go back to Lookout's claim:

"For two years,Sheila had been talking about killing her mother and the children. No doubt this will appear as part of the medical reports in the next submission. For at leas four months,Sheila herself had contemplated suicide."

Was she talking about killing her children and mother for 2 years?  No she didn't talk about killing her mother at all.  Did she talk about killing her kids for 2 years?  No she intimated that prior to her 1983 treatment that she had delusions that they could do violence to her and she thought she was capable of killing them basically to protect herself.  But these delusions stopped upon being treated and she didn't mention having them again.  So Lookout's characterization is completely wrong.

Her suggestion that for the 4 months preceding her death she was contemplating suicide is also unfounded.  The only evidence of her speaking about suicide is that she told him and others that she had thought about it in the past specifically before her 1983 treatment.     

So the jury heard that she talked about these things before her treatment, did not have these problems again after her 1983 treatment and that Ferguson did not see her at risk as going through with any violence against anyone else or herself. 

The jury also heard that she stopped taking her medication, had delusions, viewed Freddie as the devil and a big threat and yet still did not harm him.  Thus supporting Ferguson's view that she was not  a violent threat even when she stopped taking her medicaiton though at the time of the murders she was on her medication. 

That is the full story and Lookout's claims are not supported at all. 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

guest154

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2014, 04:57:PM »
Let's go to the video tape (sorry that is one of the sayings of a famous local sport newscaster):

Lookout:

"For two years,Sheila had been talking about killing her mother and the children. No doubt this will appear as part of the medical reports in the next submission. For at leas four months,Sheila herself had contemplated suicide."

Lomax:

“Sheila's psychiatrist, Doctor Ferguson, wrote in his report that his patient self harmed, had expressed thoughts of a suicidal nature and told that she was capable of murdering her sons."

What Lomax left out is that the report in question was Ferguson's 1983 discharge letter where he recorded things that she talked with him about before successfully being treated.  Here is how the 2002 Appeal decision addresses such:

"In the discharge letter Dr Ferguson made reference to her morbid thoughts, which included the idea she was capable of murdering her children or communicating an ability to them to kill. He said she had spoken of suicidal thoughts although he did not regard her as a suicide risk. Miss Caffell responded to the treatment at hospital and was discharged on 10 September 1983."

So the truth is that she told Ferguson that before her treatment she had suicidal thoughts (many people do at some point in their life) and that she had delusions about her kids.  Ferguson noted that after that successful treatment she never intimated to him any thoughts about suicide or delusions about her family anymore.  The delusions she had during her relapse was about Freddie being the devil and she told Ferguson that Freddie was supplying her with narcotics.   Hence why Ferguson told Colin he didn 't think Freddie was a good influence on her.

So let's go back to Lookout's claim:

"For two years,Sheila had been talking about killing her mother and the children. No doubt this will appear as part of the medical reports in the next submission. For at leas four months,Sheila herself had contemplated suicide."

Was she talking about killing her children and mother for 2 years?  No she didn't talk about killing her mother at all.  Did she talk about killing her kids for 2 years?  No she intimated that prior to her 1983 treatment that she had delusions that they could do violence to her and she thought she was capable of killing them basically to protect herself.  But these delusions stopped upon being treated and she didn't mention having them again.  So Lookout's characterization is completely wrong.

Her suggestion that for the 4 months preceding her death she was contemplating suicide is also unfounded.  The only evidence of her speaking about suicide is that she told him and others that she had thought about it in the past specifically before her 1983 treatment.     

So the jury heard that she talked about these things before her treatment, did not have these problems again after her 1983 treatment and that Ferguson did not see her at risk as going through with any violence against anyone else or herself. 

The jury also heard that she stopped taking her medication, had delusions, viewed Freddie as the devil and a big threat and yet still did not harm him.  Thus supporting Ferguson's view that she was not  a violent threat even when she stopped taking her medicaiton though at the time of the murders she was on her medication. 

That is the full story and Lookout's claims are not supported at all.

A solid and clear post, Scipio that I think has exposed completely the comments for what they are.

Offline Jan

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2014, 05:10:PM »
from  Helen grimsters statement in  March 1985 -  she was still talking about suicidal thoughts

« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 05:12:PM by jansus »

Offline Jan

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #55 on: September 05, 2014, 05:13:PM »
Well that's alright then - she had thoughts about harming her sons and but it was two years before .

Nothing odd about that then.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #56 on: September 05, 2014, 05:28:PM »
from  Helen grimsters statement in  March 1985 -  she was still talking about suicidal thoughts

No all she said is that Sheila told her she had contmeplated suicide in the past not when it was contemplated.  That conversation was supposedly the day after she got released from the hosipital.  She was discussing how she was placed on tranquilizers because of her prior problems including thinking about suicide and having various delusions.

It doesn't speak to any considerations of suicide on that day and certainly can't speak to the months after the conversation took place.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #57 on: September 05, 2014, 06:30:PM »
PAGE 42 OF LOMAX'S BOOK !! HERE'S THE FULL PARAGRAPH FOR THE " HARD OF SEEING "::

Quote, "It is known that Sheila had been considering ending her life for at least 4 months before her death and she had contemplated KILLING HER CHILDREN AND MOTHER FOR UP TO TWO YEARS before the fateful night. Therefore it is possible that during the discussion regarding care of the twins,if the discussion did take place,Sheila could have reasoned that she should act out her intentions.She would not have needed to have become very angry or out-wardly upset in order to consider killing because the idea was already in her mind.As her behaviour and thoughts had centred  upon religion it is entirely believable that she did not have fear of carrying out the massacre because she believed it was the right thing to do. Her passive response could have been an indication that it did not matter to her what her parents wanted for the children because she had made up her mind that the children were to be shot,that her mother was to be killed in order to cleanse her evil mind and she too was to commit suicide so that she could go to a better world,free of suffering and evil,UNQUOTE".

AS WRITTEN BY THE HAND OF S.LOMAX. PAGE 42 OF HIS BOOK,EVIL,ALMOST BEYOND BELIEF ?.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2014, 06:39:PM »
 So it's been totally ignored . Right ? While I have to put up with all the crap from the guilty camp,but as soon as I have my say,it's either lies,or I'm living in cloud cuckoo land.
How one-sided is that ? I've NEVER told ANYONE that they are wrong about what they have to say,so isn't it about time the same applied to MY posts instead of a barrage of abuse ? Because I'm bloody sick of it.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2014, 06:44:PM »
 Sorry----------but I'm trying to get a point across here,and until I do,this gets bumped !!