Sheila's blood underneath the bible. Certain guilt ?

[susan]

Hello tyler maybe the bible we see near Sheila's body was June's and opened at the pages it was found by June earlier..

[Jane]

Blue bible was definitely June's and was usually kept on her bedside table. Think it was Jean Boutell who confirmed this? June's fingerprints were found on the bible along with some unidentified smaller prints believed to be children's.

Tyler -forgive me for ignoring you. It's good to have you back- it would be amazing if June's prints hadn't been on the bible. Maybe the boys showed an interest in Granny's book. To children, SOME of the stories could sound almost magical.

[tyler]

Totally agree April and thank you x

[lookout]

2 bloodied fingerprints on the pulse point of Sheilas' neck ? Neither the doctors nor police officers admitted touching Sheila in any way to ensure that she was dead ??
If I'd been the doctor,I'd have been ashamed admitting that,as all he did was a visual check to see if she,and the rest of the family were dead.

[Jan]

This thread is about how the bible ended up on top of Sheila's blood ?

It seems that the police and even the photographer moved everything.

In that case Jeremy is a lucky boy.

why is he lucky ?

[scipio_usmc]

Come to think of it, people usually use two hands when firing a long rifle.

One hand to direct the rifle, the other to pull the trigger.

So Sheila would have put the bible on the floor before firing her first shot.

So how did her blood get underneath the bible ?

Took you long enough to think of the most obvious problem.

 

[scipio_usmc]

We don´t know if it was on the floor - it could have been on the bed.
Sheila could have picked the bible up after the first shot, she was conscious.

She was likely unconscious.  Vanezis said it is possible she was conscious a short while after the shot but he did not think so.

The pool of blood it sat in was formed after she died, not after the first shot. That is a problem because it means the bible was put down in that place after she was dead but before the pool had dried.   

Worse yet she didn't shoot herself lying down.  Jeremy wanted to make it look like she shot herself while lying down and that is why he put the bible near her shoulder.  But she was seated when shot. She would have put the bible by her hips if she had looked at it right before being shot.

So his staging of her shooting herself while laying down was botched.  It was botched even further by leaivng the moderator attached when he shot her.

[Alias]

She was likely unconscious.  Vanezis said it is possible she was conscious a short while after the shot but he did not think so.

The pool of blood it sat in was formed after she died, not after the first shot. That is a problem because it means the bible was put down in that place after she was dead but before the pool had dried.   

Worse yet she didn't shoot herself lying down.  Jeremy wanted to make it look like she shot herself while lying down and that is why he put the bible near her shoulder.  But she was seated when shot. She would have put the bible by her hips if she had looked at it right before being shot.

So his staging of her shooting herself while laying down was botched.  It was botched even further by leaivng the moderator attached when he shot her.

We don´t really know that. This is all we can see of the blood - we have no photos of the spot of blood without the bible on top of it.
Sheila may have sat up for the first shot and been in a lying position for the second.

[lookout]

It looks as though she's been on her right side,then rolled on her back,either under her own volition or physically turned by someone,and the Bible has just been placed over where her neck area had been.
When someone is dying,they do sometimes give a cough,which is what might have been heard,and to the uninitiated,they think that person is still alive. I think Sheila had assistance.

[scipio_usmc]

We don´t really know that. This is all we can see of the blood - we have no photos of the spot of blood without the bible on top of it.
Sheila may have sat up for the first shot and been in a lying position for the second.

The large stain at the top was formed by it being placed in a pool of blood. That is not a drip stain.

She would have fallen back from either shot so had to be propped up against something during the course of the first shot.

Moving away from whatever she was propped up against so she could lay down would have resulted in much more blood leaking down the side of her neck onto the floor. Trying to open the bible and read it while lying down is ridiculous but worse it would not result in bloody drips that could only happen while she is above the bible.  So we are supposed to believe she was initially shot seated propped up against something, opened the bible at that point dripping on it, then moved her body away from whatever she was propped against to lie down and got blood on the floor, still had the bible with her and opened it while laying down to put next to her shoulder and then shot herself while lying down.

The blood evidence doesn't support such nor does common sense.  Modern blood staining evidence says she was shot while seated and then moved flat after her death.  She would have put down the bible by her side not move with it in her hands so she coudl drip on it and then lay it next to her shoulder.

She was flat so he could lay the gun on her, he couldn't lay it on her while she was propped seated so tha tis why he moved her body.   After he did so is when he decided to move the bible to make it appear she read it while lying down right before she fired the second shot.

Vanezis said both shots were fired within seconds of one another.  She would not have had enough time to read the bible, then move her body flat then read it again and put it down next to her shoulder and then to carefully plan another shot.

It is even more inconceivable for her to lay down with the gun on top of her and no GSR ot get on her gown.  Gravity would pull the particles to her gown. It already is unlikely that she could have hugged the gun and GSR to not get on her gown but laying down with it on her is worse then for sure GSR would be expected.

That is without even taking into account the moderator and physical evidence that she didn't kill the others.

[Alias]

Wouldn´t her nightgown logically have had gunshot residue on it in any case, whether she was shot or shot herself - she was there in any case! With all the mistakes made in this case, I have no problem saying that I don´t trust the forensic testing.

____________'

We don´t know what Sheila did after the first shot other than that she must have held her right hand or wrist up to the wound - and held that position for a little while for the blood to pool like that on her lower arm. If she could do that, who knows what else she could have done. Was Jeremy just standing by wathching this?

How did the blood under the bible end up where it did from the position she is in here - after she died? I can´t really see it.
I would like to have a COMPETENT blood spatter expert look at this. I am sure advances have been made in this field since the last assessment.

[scipio_usmc]

Wouldn´t her nightgown logically have had gunshot residue on it in any case, whether she was shot or shot herself - she was there in any case! With all the mistakes made in this case, I have no problem saying that I don´t trust the forensic testing.

No, when shot by a rifle, particularly one with a mdoerator attached, the victim would not be very likely to have any GSR on them.  GSR is transferred when in close contact with the area of the weapon where the firing pin is.  In the case of a handgun a victim can be much closer to the gunman and thus has a much better chance of getting GSR on them. If it is fired at a distance it obviously won't happen but if close then it will. 

Her shooting herself would require the gun to be close to her body and thus reuslt in GSR getting on her especially if she were lying down with the gun above her. In contrast if shot by someone the area of the gun that has the firing pin would be far from her body.   

The alleged mistakes made in this case by police were minor ones that helped Jeremy and had nothign at all to do with the lab which tested her gown. 

____________'

We don´t know what Sheila did after the first shot other than that she must have held her right hand or wrist up to the wound - and held that position for a little while for the blood to pool like that on her lower arm. If she could do that, who knows what else she could have done. Was Jeremy just standing by wathching this?

How did the blood under the bible end up where it did from the position she is in here - after she died? I can´t really see it.
I would like to have a COMPETENT blood spatter expert look at this. I am sure advances have been made in this field since the last assessment.

The blood dripped down her arm from her elbow to her wrist not from her wrist down to her elbow.

As for the blood examination modern experts say she was seated when shot and moved later.  The prosecution even posited maybe the large blood stain on the bible was a palm print which would be very damning for Jeremy since the inside of Sheila's palm was clean but there is no ridge impression from a palm and that area of the bible was right on top of a pool of blood thus indicating it was from sitting in such pool of blood not made by a palm.   

[Alias]

The blood dripped down her arm from her elbow to her wrist not from her wrist down to her elbow.

Her elbow wasn´t bleeding - I don´t know what you mean.

Blood didn´t drip onto her arm - it ran from the wound. There is nothing indicating dripping on her arm. There are strreams of blood, no drops with droplets around them. You have to imagine her arm upside down, since that would be the case when she held her arm and hand up to the first wound on her neck.

[Caroline]

No, when shot by a rifle, particularly one with a mdoerator attached, the victim would not be very likely to have any GSR on them.  GSR is transferred when in close contact with the area of the weapon where the firing pin is.  In the case of a handgun a victim can be much closer to the gunman and thus has a much better chance of getting GSR on them. If it is fired at a distance it obviously won't happen but if close then it will. 

Her shooting herself would require the gun to be close to her body and thus reuslt in GSR getting on her especially if she were lying down with the gun above her. In contrast if shot by someone the area of the gun that has the firing pin would be far from her body.   

The alleged mistakes made in this case by police were minor ones that helped Jeremy and had nothign at all to do with the lab which tested her gown. 

The blood dripped down her arm from her elbow to her wrist not from her wrist down to her elbow.

As for the blood examination modern experts say she was seated when shot and moved later.  The prosecution even posited maybe the large blood stain on the bible was a palm print which would be very damning for Jeremy since the inside of Sheila's palm was clean but there is no ridge impression from a palm and that area of the bible was right on top of a pool of blood thus indicating it was from sitting in such pool of blood not made by a palm.

Where did you get that from? I have never seen heard that the prosecution alleged this. We discussed it here at length though. Also mentioned before is the fact that stain is on the wrong side to have been sitting in the blood.

[Alias]

Where did you get that from? I have never seen heard that the prosecution alleged this. We discussed it here at length though. Also mentioned before is the fact that stain is on the wrong side to have been sitting in the blood.

Right - opposite side.