Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?

[Adam]

If Jeremy phoned the police at 3.36am, that is 26 minutes after be said he received Neville's call.

Jeremy in his WS said he 'immediately rang the police'

If he was on the phone for several minutes from 3.36am. Then phoned Julie afterwards (as he said he did), he would not have time to arrive at WHF at 3.48am, driving so slowly.

[Jane]

We have been told that Jeremy's call -to the police- lasted "only 30 seconds or so." VERY little time to give more than a bare outline, added to which an innocent Jeremy would, in panic, probably have garbled his words and a guilty Jeremy would have needed to feign panic.

If we look at what MAY have been that conversation within that time frame we could find that it ran thus: "My name is Jeremy Bamber.  I live at 9 Head Street, Goldhanger. I've just received a call from my father saying my sister has gone crazy and has got hold of one of his guns" The next part of the conversation would surely have been: "Can you give me your father's name and address, Sir" followed by "It's Mr Neville Bamber. White House Farm, Pages lane, Tolleshunt D' Arcy. Please hurry" There seems to have followed some business regarding how Jeremy would get there. Is it possible that call was passed on as "Call from Mr Neville Bamber of...........................Daughter has gone berserk with one of his guns"?

[Jane]

Hi Susan, quite right both sensible posters as well as Maggie, April, and Alias even though we sometimes don't agree they talk sense?

Justice, how kind. Thank-you

[mike tesko]

This is what probably took place regaarding the two timed telephone logs (3.26 and 3.36am) - (1) Ralph makes call to police and speaks to PC West at 3.26am, West records what Ralph tells him regarding the deteriorating circumstances at the farmhouse. West records what Ralph tells him in the main part of the record sheet. Perhaps, it may have taken several mimutes for Ralph to get over to West the full picture of the unfolding drama, or that West himself took his time recording what Ralph was telling him. In the meantime, Jeremy made his call to police which was answered by Bonnett (3.36am)...

Now, either at the conclusion of West recording information imparted to him by Ralph in the timed 3.26am phone log, or because Ralph was no longer able to communicate, that at about 3.36am, West contacted Bonnet, or vice versa, and that from 3.36am onwards, Bonnet recorded what Jeremy was telling him in the 3.36am phone log, whilst West merely added a brief reference to the fact that "the son had also contacted police and passed a message".

This seems to be the best possible explanation yet, since, recorded in PC Wests, 3.26am phone log are fundamental contradictipns, making mention of the terms, "daughter", and "Son", the clearest indicator yet, that West could not possibly have recorded in its entireity, what Jeremy had been speaking to Bonnet about, because Sheila was not Jeremys daughter, nor was for that matter, Jeremy, Sheila's son...

[Adam]

We have been told that Jeremy's call -to the police- lasted "only 30 seconds or so." VERY little time to give more than a bare outline, added to which an innocent Jeremy would, in panic, probably have garbled his words and a guilty Jeremy would have needed to feign panic.

If we look at what MAY have been that conversation within that time frame we could find that it ran thus: "My name is Jeremy Bamber.  I live at 9 Head Street, Goldhanger. I've just received a call from my father saying my sister has gone crazy and has got hold of one of his guns" The next part of the conversation would surely have been: "Can you give me your father's name and address, Sir" followed by "It's Mr Neville Bamber. White House Farm, Pages lane, Tolleshunt D' Arcy. Please hurry" There seems to have followed some business regarding how Jeremy would get there. Is it possible that call was passed on as "Call from Mr Neville Bamber of...........................Daughter has gone berserk with one of his guns"?

No it would not have taken 30 seconds.

It would have taken several minutes. West kept Jeremy holding on the line while he went to phone Witham police station.

Jeremy complained about being kept waiting when West returned to speak to him.

[Jane]

No it would not have taken 30 seconds.

It would have taken several minutes. West kept Jeremy holding on the line while he phoned Witham police station.

Jeremy complained about being kept waiting when West returned to speak to him.

I'm not referring to the length of time he was kept on hold. I'm talking about conversation time which of itself would seem longer than 30 seconds or so.

[Adam]

I'm not referring to the length of time he was kept on hold. I'm talking about conversation time which of itself would seem longer than 30 seconds or so.

That would also be more than 30 seconds.

West having to write down lots of details. Name, address, situation, who was at WHF, etc.

[Jane]

I'm not referring to the length of time he was kept on hold. I'm talking about conversation time which of itself would seem longer than 30 seconds or so.

That would also be more than 30 seconds.

West having to write down lots of details. Name, address, situation, who was at WHF, etc.

Why are you repeating what I've just said.

[Adam]

Why are you repeating what I've just said.

I am not. I am saying it would take more than 30 seconds for Jeremy to tell West the situation and details. And for West to write it down.

[Jane]

We have been told that Jeremy's call -to the police- lasted "only 30 seconds or so." VERY little time to give more than a bare outline, added to which an innocent Jeremy would, in panic, probably have garbled his words and a guilty Jeremy would have needed to feign panic.

If we look at what MAY have been that conversation within that time frame we could find that it ran thus: "My name is Jeremy Bamber.  I live at 9 Head Street, Goldhanger. I've just received a call from my father saying my sister has gone crazy and has got hold of one of his guns" The next part of the conversation would surely have been: "Can you give me your father's name and address, Sir" followed by "It's Mr Neville Bamber. White House Farm, Pages lane, Tolleshunt D' Arcy. Please hurry" There seems to have followed some business regarding how Jeremy would get there. Is it possible that call was passed on as "Call from Mr Neville Bamber of...........................Daughter has gone berserk with one of his guns"?

I am not. I am saying it would take more than 30 seconds for Jeremy to tell West the situation and details. And for West to write it down.

Which is EXACTLY what I was drawing attention to in the first place.

[Adam]

'We have been told Jeremy's call to West lasted only  30 seconds'.

Source please.

[Jane]

'We have been told Jeremy's call to West lasted only  30 seconds'.

Source please.

Mike said it earlier -hence my response. Go ask him.

[Caroline]

According to scipio_usmc, it would have taken a couple of minutes or more [for Jeremy] to explain his story to Pc West in full and to give West time to write it all down. According to Caroline, Bonnett recorded a time of 03:26, West obviously called Bonnet 'after' Jeremy had called and so Jeremy HAD to call at least four or five minutes before that.

Why these somewhat different guesses as to how long it took for Jeremy to give West the details he logged? Pc West was asked about this and said twice that it took less than a minute. Moreover, if one creates a plausible re-enactment of the call, it is consistent with what Pc West claimed. Even if Pc West incorrectly estimated the time, giving only half of the actual value, that would still mean that the correct value was under two minutes. Pc West was confident he spoke to Bonnett for less than three minutes. This is consistent with police statements that say they were told to go to WHF at about 03:30, though there isn't any explanation offered as to why they finally departed at 03:35, five minutes after being told to go.

However, Pc West and Malcolm Bonnett contradict each other regarding who despatched car CA07. Pc West stated he called Bonnett not to ask him to send a car, but to find out which police station covered WHF. Pc West also states he spoke to Witham by radio after being told by Bonnett that WHF was covered by Witham police station. This indicates that Pc West caused car CA07 to be sent to WHF. However, Malcolm Bonnett said in his statement "On completion of the conversation with Pc 1990 I called a Mobile Police car identified by the Call sign Charlie Alpha 7 and sent that vehicle directly to the scene of the alleged incident at White House Farm, Tolleshunt D'Arcy." What's interesting is that this account is not supported by what the officers who were despatched put in their statements. They said they had just returned to base and were no longer in car CA07 when told to go to WHF. Moreover, it took them about five minutes to return to their vehicle and use their radio to say they had departed. Also, Bonnett seems to have no recollection of being asked by Pc West which police station covered WHF. Clearly, Pc West and Malcolm Bonnett cannot both have been giving the truth.

I think you have somewhat missed the point and seem to be trying to distract from it. The POINT is that there could be no call from Neville.

[Caroline]

I do not believe that Bonnet called PC West and relayed the details of Jeremys call to him at 3.26am, it makes more sense for PC West to have called Bonnett after Ralphs call to West timed at 3.26am, and then for Bonnet to relay the contents of Jeremys call to PC West at 3.36am - this explanation clears up the inconsistencies recorded in both phone logs, involving the terms, "daughter" (3.26am), and "sister" (3.36am). It also helps to clarify the circumstances in which the occupants of CA07 were dispatched to the incident 3.35am) before Jeremy called the police himself at 3.36am...

Why did police keep Neville's call secret? Taff Jones wanted the relatives off his back, he had no reason to keep the call secret and every reason to make it public. The call would also have been confirmed to Jeremy the following day.

[mike tesko]

Jeremy was put on hold rather abruptly when he first contacted the police...

I believe, in total his call lasted around 10 minutes, but for much of that time, Jeremy was on hold, whilst Bonnet spoke to PC West...

Jeremy was held for such a long time because PC Eest was relaying to Bonnet the fact that he had received the call from the scene by Ralph Bamber. At this time, Bonnet told West that he had also received a call from the son about the same matter...

Once Bonnet had explained to PC West about Jeremys call, he spoke to Jeremy again and told him to make his way to the farm where he would be met by police who had already been dispatched to the incident...

We therefore now know that the occupants of CA07 were dispatched to attend the scene before the call from Jeremy to Bonnet terminated. Bonnet must have been told this information by PC West - therefore, West instructed the occupants of CA07 to attend the incident at the scene, not Bonnet. If West received the call at 3.26am from Ralph, he obviously contacted the occupants of CA07, before Jeremy had made his call to police at 3.36am, received by Bonnett...