Bullets and Moderator

[Alias]

[Caroline]

The quoted statement doesn't say anything about spitting out fragmented bullets.

It says the bolt was not properly closing and the ejection port had problems sometimes thus causing either a cartridge to jam instead of feeding properly or the spent casing to get stuck.

If a cartridge doesn't feed prerly into the chamber the gun won't shoot.  You have to get the stuck cartridge out and either feed a new cartridge in.  If the spent shell casing is stuck it likewise prevents a new round from being prerly fed into the chamber.  You again hadve to clear the jam and then load the gun again.

The gun periodically got jammed on Fletcher and would not shoot, he had to clear the jam before he could fire. There was nothing wrong with the bullets that came out of the gun the significance of this is that potentially the gun could have jammed on the killer.  Sheila probably would not know how to clear it even if not in a deranged state let alone a deranged one.

The killer was probably lucky though.  In all likelihood the damage occurred when Nevill was being beaten.  Jamming when shooting at the parents in the bedroom would have been a serious problem because potentially it could have jammed before the killer immobilized either of them which woudl have left two people to disarm a killer with a jammed wepaon.  But there is no evidence to suggest that happened. 

After the kitchen episode the boys were shot 8 times and Sheila 2 so a misfire would not have been that big a deal like it would have in the master bedroom.  Could there have been a jam and that explain why 1 boy got 5 rounds and the second only 3? Perhaps but Jeremy could have simply decided to save some bullets for Sheila isntead of having to go reload so the difference in shots is hardly proof of a misfire.  The tight grouping of the shots suggests they were fired in rapid succession not a gap between the shots so no sign of a jam in that respect.

He spoke about dirt potentially causing the problem.  The gun wasn't cleaned between the murders and testing.  The dirt and grime from the shots fired during the murders had time to cause problems.  So it is possible that the jamming problem developed subsequent to the murders. 

So that is why the prosecution ultimately did not argue the gun would have jammed and Sheila would no have known how to clear it thus she wasn't the killer.  There just wasn't enough to say it definitely would have jammed or claim there was evidence to prove it did.

   

   

That's what the letter say BUT I think Alias was quoting something when she posted "Silencer, SBJ/1 was damaged and was shattering control bullets fired through it"

Do you have a link for the quote Alias?

[Caroline]

Ha, ha!! I feel his pain!!

[scipio_usmc]

That's what the letter say BUT I think Alias was quoting something when she posted "Silencer, SBJ/1 was damaged and was shattering control bullets fired through it"

Do you have a link for the quote Alias?

That quote was from Mike there is no need to look for it.  I already argued with him in the past over the claim.  Par for the course there is nothing from Fletcher that actually asserts such. 

Test firing the moderator would not demonstrate the conditions necessarily present at the time of the murders.  The 2 main causes of baffles being hit are:

1) the moderator not being screwed on properly (if you screw it on crooked it will cause problems)

2) the baffles were put in crooked.

You need to have the weapon as is with the moderator still attached and test it at that point to see whethe rit is hitting the baffles or not.  If the killer took it off then you have no way to know if it was properly screwed on or not.  At best you can test whether the baffles were proerly installed.

Not only did the killer remove the moderator, the moderator was taken apart to get the blood out before any test firing took place.  That leaves only 1 option to trying to find out if the moderator was potentially installed wrong- looking for damage to the moderator.  If there is none that means the moderator was properly assembled and installed anytime the weapon was used previously.  If there is damage then that means at some point previously it had been improperly assembled or installed. It still would not necessarily mean that such damage occurred during the murders.

A baffle hit during testing would merely prove that someone in the lab put the moderator back together wrong or it was improperly installed to the rifle it woudl not mean anything with respect to the conditions at the murder.  The exception to that woudl be if some issue were found which prevented the moderator from ever fitting right such as the threading being messed up by the person who threaded it.  The murder wepaon was factory threaded and had no issues but some people get it done aftermarket and that can be done sloppily.   

His main report is this one which perhaps should be added to the statement index so peopel can find it easier:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4019.0

[Caroline]

That quote was from Mike there is no need to look for it.  I already argued with him in the past over the claim.  Par for the course there is nothing from Fletcher that actually asserts such. 

Test firing the moderator would not demonstrate the conditions necessarily present at the time of the murders.  The 2 main causes of baffles being hit are:

1) the moderator not being screwed on properly (if you screw it on crooked it will cause problems)

2) the baffles were put in crooked.

You need to have the weapon as is with the moderator still attached and test it at that point to see whethe rit is hitting the baffles or not.  If the killer took it off then you have no way to know if it was properly screwed on or not.  At best you can test whether the baffles were proerly installed.

Not only did the killer remove the moderator, the moderator was taken apart to get the blood out before any test firing took place.  That leaves only 1 option to trying to find out if the moderator was potentially installed wrong- looking for damage to the moderator.  If there is none that means the moderator was properly assembled and installed anytime the weapon was used previously.  If there is damage then that means at some point previously it had been improperly assembled or installed. It still would not necessarily mean that such damage occurred during the murders.

A baffle hit during testing would merely prove that someone in the lab put the moderator back together wrong or it was improperly installed to the rifle it woudl not mean anything with respect to the conditions at the murder.  The exception to that woudl be if some issue were found which prevented the moderator from ever fitting right such as the threading being messed up by the person who threaded it.  The murder wepaon was factory threaded and had no issues but some people get it done aftermarket and that can be done sloppily.   

His main report is this one which perhaps should be added to the statement index so peopel can find it easier:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4019.0

Fairy nuff!

[Alias]

The Silencer was a shaky piece of evidence, wasn´t it?

[Caroline]

The Silencer was a shaky piece of evidence, wasn´t it?

So shaky that I'm surprised it didn't crumble under the vibration 

[mike tesko]

According to Ann Eatons hand written notes, her husband returned Gun or part of a gun to the farmhouse on 9th August 1985, which means that the said gun or component part was not present earlier when police searched for clues. Did Peter Eaton return one of the silencers, or the metal cap which fits onto the end of the gun barrel. Alternatively, did Peter Eaton return Anthony Pargeters .22 rifle?

[lookout]

It's AP's rifle that remains the bugbear in all this. Though in my own mind,it was used to fire at least one bullet,but should have been identified as having been used by the unique markers of rifle to bullet.

[scipio_usmc]

The Silencer was a shaky piece of evidence, wasn´t it?

Only to those who are ignorant.  Such as people who suggest that Mike was correct when he claimed Flether stated it was shredding bullets during the testing.

The fact of the matter is that there is nothing at all that anyone who distrusts the moderator can legitimately raise to try to discredit it.

The lab would have to have orchestrated things and to have backdated various things on their end not merely police lying in statements and doing so.  There f course is no evidence at all to suggest any such thing happened.

You constantly try making it about gender but your gender has nothing to do with your claims being unsound if you were a man making such claims they would be just as problemmatic. Maybe one day you will wake up and smell the coffee. 

[Alias]

Only to those who are ignorant.  Such as people who suggest that Mike was correct when he claimed Flether stated it was shredding bullets during the testing.

The fact of the matter is that there is nothing at all that anyone who distrusts the moderator can legitimately raise to try to discredit it.

The lab would have to have orchestrated things and to have backdated various things on their end not merely police lying in statements and doing so.  There f course is no evidence at all to suggest any such thing happened.

You constantly try making it about gender but your gender has nothing to do with your claims being unsound if you were a man making such claims they would be just as problemmatic. Maybe one day you will wake up and smell the coffee.

No, you got that wrong - deliberately, as you always do. I have been talking about how Sheila is portryed, and to some extent, June too.
In your narratives (yours and Adam´s), you always presume that Nevill, the man, would have acted in a heroic manner.
You don´t know that.
I never, ever talk about my own gender, it is not relevant. You just like to be nasty at every turn and deliberately misinterpret what people actually say.

[Caroline]

Only to those who are ignorant.  Such as people who suggest that Mike was correct when he claimed Flether stated it was shredding bullets during the testing.

The fact of the matter is that there is nothing at all that anyone who distrusts the moderator can legitimately raise to try to discredit it.

The lab would have to have orchestrated things and to have backdated various things on their end not merely police lying in statements and doing so.  There f course is no evidence at all to suggest any such thing happened.

You constantly try making it about gender but your gender has nothing to do with your claims being unsound if you were a man making such claims they would be just as problematic. Maybe one day you will wake up and smell the coffee.

How does not believing the silencer was used make people 'ignorant'? That's actually an 'ignorant' statement.

[scipio_usmc]

No, you got that wrong - deliberately, as you always do. I have been talking about how Sheila is portryed, and to some extent, June too.
In your narratives (yours and Adam´s), you always presume that Nevill, the man, would have acted in a heroic manner.
You don´t know that.
I never, ever talk about my own gender, it is not relevant. You just like to be nasty at every turn and deliberately misinterpret what people actually say.

Nevill had the instinct of self-preservation, he fought back even after he was shot and despite 1 arm being broken.  Those trying to pretend he would cower like a child have no leg to stand on.  The man was also experienced with guns and like me would relaize that Sheila knew nothing about semi-autos and if he did see her grab the gun and insert the magazine then he also would have seen she didn't charge the weapon. That means it wouldn't fire so could be safely taken away from her.  If he didn't see her load it he still would have reason to know that she didn't know she had to charge it let alone how and that even if she loaded bullets in the magazine it would not fire. 

The notion he would be too scared to try to disarm her so he wanted Jeremy to do it instead is stupid.  People here, epsecially his defenders, conside rhim to chicken shit to have been involved in anything and yet these same people suggest Nevill would have turned to him.  The notion he would turn to Jeremy when: he was bigge rand stronge rthan Jeremy, Jeremy didn't have a good relationship with Sheila, he thought Jeremy wanted to kill him, and it would take Jeremy a while to arrive if he even answered the phone is not credible at all.

If you get away from someone running around with a gun do you call another family member to come over and hope the family member can arrive in time and that the family member can successfully disarm the person or do you grab a gun and arm yourself with it or even a knife or something else you can use to disarm the person? Why would Jeremy be able to sneak up on her and disarm her but he would not be able to do so? 

If you do call for help you hide your family, call for help and stay in hiding while waiting for the help.  If you don't get a change to do that then you are stuck trying to defend against the threat because time is of the essence.  Calling someone who woudl come in 20 minutes does no good if you are going to be shot before that.

You don't look at this issue or mnny others realistically at all.  Nevill fought back he didn't sit cowering as his killer blasted him.  We have no way to know whether he pursued his killer to the kitchen or his killer pursued him as he ran to arm himself but either way when both were in the kitchen he confronted his killer and tried to take the weapon away and there was a vicious struggle.

There is nothing at all realistic about the phone call including the fact that it doesn't fit into the known situation.  The killer walked into the master bedroom and unloaded a full magazine into both parents.  That is how the shooting started.  Had the phone call have been real the shooting would have started in the kitchen upon finding him on the phone, her disconnecting the call by either grabbing the phone, hanging it up then taking it back off the hook so no one could call or pushing the buttons down to disconnect the call then marching Nevill upstairs is not credible.  Aside the fact that she would not bother worrying about the phone remaining off the hook, getting that close to Nevill and having only 1 hand on the gun at the time would mean she coudl not aim it and fire well so it would be a golden opportunity to disarm her.  instead we are supposed to believe he did not take advantage and then she decided to march him upstairs because she wante dot kill her parents in the same room for some reason.  If she decided ot kill him she would have blown him away right there not rationalyl decide to march him upstairs to kill both parents together because if she killed him downstairs then June might hear and get up and cause problems.  That is what a rational killer determined to off the whole family for some specific reasons would worry about.
 
Jeremy supporters claim Sheila killed everyone while having delusions but then try asserting she did all sorts of rational things that a killer trying to esecape liability for the crime would do as opposed to someone who intended to commit suicide after it was over.  The call Jeremy made up from Nevill saddled the defense with the claim Sheila did it in a crazy rage but that doesn't fit what happened and it prevents the defense arguing someoen else did it they are stuck saying she did it and tha tit was because she went crazy.

Jeremy is sunk by this because there is no way she killed everyone else without getting evidence on her clothing and body, no way she killed herself without getting evidence on her clothign and body and in fact no way she could have killed herself then removed the moderator and put it away or moved her body flat or opened and closed the bible in the pool of her own blood. 

Nor do any of his actions comport with someone who received a call. Nothing fits into palce with respect to Jeremy's claims. It is not one thing that is a problem it is everything.  This is not a close case which is why the Appeal Court and CCRC have rejected all claism.  The CCRC smacked down the defense so hard that the defense doesn't evne want to release the ruling, which is quite understandible.

 

[Alias]

You don´t know whether Nevill fought. Personally I find it unlikely - he was badly wounded and wouldn´t have been able to put up much of a fight. I think he sat down receiving those blows.

[Jan]

According to Ann Eatons hand written notes, her husband returned Gun or part of a gun to the farmhouse on 9th August 1985, which means that the said gun or component part was not present earlier when police searched for clues. Did Peter Eaton return one of the silencers, or the metal cap which fits onto the end of the gun barrel. Alternatively, did Peter Eaton return Anthony Pargeters .22 rifle?

mike there are two "gun cupboards" ? yes ?

Is there only a crime scene picture of the one in the office? And what is that behind the door in the picture?

were there any other pictures of the other cupboard ? which I guess was the one they found the moderator?