Author Topic: Bullets and Moderator  (Read 4348 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2014, 08:24:PM »
There are times it will deflect out the side of the tube as well.

Yep, and the moderator 'can' shoot off the end of the rifle. Either way a baffle strike would have been obvious.
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Offline Alias

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2014, 08:27:PM »
Lookout, a search here didn´t lead me directly to any letter - but there was this:

Silencer, SBJ/1 was damaged and was shattering control bullets fired through it

(1) Prosecution Ballistic Expert, Malcolm Fletcher, made a statement saying that he could not tell if any of the 25 bullets had been fired through the silencer - this was because he knew that any bullets which had been fired through it during test firing with control bullets was shattering them, and there was only one bullet which had those characteristics before it was substituted and replaced, and that was bullet PV/20...

(2) Confirmation that silencer was used was only possible by relying upon blood found inside it that was attributable to Sheila...

Guess I have to chew my way through Malcolm Fletcher´s stament.c :-\

Oh, well, there isn´t much in the archives, just this.


Offline Alias

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2014, 08:29:PM »
Yep, and the moderator 'can' shoot off the end of the rifle. Either way a baffle strike would have been obvious.

I am hypothesizing about minor misalignment.

Offline lookout

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2014, 08:33:PM »
That'll do me,as it proves anyway that it was neither cleaned nor a coolant used during the rapid firings.

It was Mike who'd put Cooks' letter on the forum last December,regarding damage to the silencer.

Offline lookout

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2014, 08:46:PM »
 PV 20 could possibly have been fired with the silencer fitted ( in the kitchen ) hence why the bullet shattered as velocity would have been reduced.PV19 was the killer bullet,without the silencer.

Or two different rifles.Only Ballistics experts/forensics would know that because of their microscopic equipment to match up bullet marks to rifles used.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2014, 09:35:PM »
PV 20 could possibly have been fired with the silencer fitted ( in the kitchen ) hence why the bullet shattered as velocity would have been reduced.PV19 was the killer bullet,without the silencer.

Or two different rifles.Only Ballistics experts/forensics would know that because of their microscopic equipment to match up bullet marks to rifles used.

PV 20 fragmented after striking bone but most of the core was still intact. The entire projectile did not break into tiny peices.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Caroline

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2014, 09:47:PM »
Lookout, a search here didn´t lead me directly to any letter - but there was this:

Silencer, SBJ/1 was damaged and was shattering control bullets fired through it

(1) Prosecution Ballistic Expert, Malcolm Fletcher, made a statement saying that he could not tell if any of the 25 bullets had been fired through the silencer - this was because he knew that any bullets which had been fired through it during test firing with control bullets was shattering them, and there was only one bullet which had those characteristics before it was substituted and replaced, and that was bullet PV/20...

(2) Confirmation that silencer was used was only possible by relying upon blood found inside it that was attributable to Sheila...

Guess I have to chew my way through Malcolm Fletcher´s stament.c :-\

Oh, well, there isn´t much in the archives, just this.



Kind of suggests it wasn't used - but there's no surprise there. Surely if it was coughing out fragmented bullets and most of those fired during the murders weren't - it kind of adds weight to it not having been used?
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Offline Alias

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2014, 10:03:PM »
It does suggest it was not used!!

Offline Caroline

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2014, 10:13:PM »
It does suggest it was not used!!

I sense a monologue looming  ;D
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Offline Alias

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2014, 10:24:PM »
I sense a monologue looming  ;D

Me too...

Offline Jane

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2014, 10:26:PM »
Me too...



Perhaps it's time for bed :D :D :D

Offline Jan

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2014, 10:28:PM »
thank goodness for the ignore button ;D

Offline Caroline

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2014, 10:34:PM »
Me too...

Ahhhhh!!!!! It's on it's way!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2014, 10:40:PM »
Kind of suggests it wasn't used - but there's no surprise there. Surely if it was coughing out fragmented bullets and most of those fired during the murders weren't - it kind of adds weight to it not having been used?

The quoted statement doesn't say anything about spitting out fragmented bullets.

It says the bolt was not properly closing and the ejection port had problems sometimes thus causing either a cartridge to jam instead of feeding properly or the spent casing to get stuck.

If a cartridge doesn't feed prerly into the chamber the gun won't shoot.  You have to get the stuck cartridge out and either feed a new cartridge in.  If the spent shell casing is stuck it likewise prevents a new round from being prerly fed into the chamber.  You again hadve to clear the jam and then load the gun again.

The gun periodically got jammed on Fletcher and would not shoot, he had to clear the jam before he could fire. There was nothing wrong with the bullets that came out of the gun the significance of this is that potentially the gun could have jammed on the killer.  Sheila probably would not know how to clear it even if not in a deranged state let alone a deranged one.

The killer was probably lucky though.  In all likelihood the damage occurred when Nevill was being beaten.  Jamming when shooting at the parents in the bedroom would have been a serious problem because potentially it could have jammed before the killer immobilized either of them which woudl have left two people to disarm a killer with a jammed wepaon.  But there is no evidence to suggest that happened. 

After the kitchen episode the boys were shot 8 times and Sheila 2 so a misfire would not have been that big a deal like it would have in the master bedroom.  Could there have been a jam and that explain why 1 boy got 5 rounds and the second only 3? Perhaps but Jeremy could have simply decided to save some bullets for Sheila isntead of having to go reload so the difference in shots is hardly proof of a misfire.  The tight grouping of the shots suggests they were fired in rapid succession not a gap between the shots so no sign of a jam in that respect.

He spoke about dirt potentially causing the problem.  The gun wasn't cleaned between the murders and testing.  The dirt and grime from the shots fired during the murders had time to cause problems.  So it is possible that the jamming problem developed subsequent to the murders. 

So that is why the prosecution ultimately did not argue the gun would have jammed and Sheila would no have known how to clear it thus she wasn't the killer.  There just wasn't enough to say it definitely would have jammed or claim there was evidence to prove it did.

   

   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Bullets and Moderator
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2014, 10:43:PM »
I sense a monologue looming  ;D

His statement is being significantly misinterpreted.  Nothign was wrong with the bullets that actually fired from the gun, he was having a problem getting the bullets to feed and the spent casings to eject properly.  On occasion the gun jammed which means it could not fire.  The bullets would not fire period, they were not spitting out damaged.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry