Fraudulent Log?

[mike tesko]

When Jeremy was interviewed by Essex police, he denied that when his father called him he said to Jeremy that "Sheila had gone crazy", or that "Sheila had got the gun"...

Jeremy told the police in that interview that it was the police officers interpretation of what Jeremy told him, that which his father had said to Jeremy, which put the emphasis on Ralph Bambers reference to the person concerned being Jeremys sister...

Jeremy told police during those first interviews, that his father did not make it clear who he was referring to at the time of the call. His father had not said, "Sheila", or "Sister", but that he believed his father had used the term, "She has", or maybe, "He has"...

These are the facts, recorded in the official interview records - Ralph did not use the term, "Sheila", or "Sister". He said, either, "She has", or "He has"...

In the circumstances of this investigation, any reference by Ralph Bamber to "She has", could be a reference to either Sheila, or June Bamber had gone crazy, and got the gun (at that stage of the call), or that either Sheila or June had hone crazy, and that either Sheila or June had got the gun, or vice versa. For example, how does anyone know that during this brief telephone call from the scene, that what Ralph had been trying to say, but had not got an opportunity to elaborate upon, that June had gone crazy, and that Sheila had got the gun, or vice versa, referred to by Ralph with his use of the term, "She has gone crazy, she has got the gun"...

If Ralph used the term, "He has", it must have been a reference to an as yet unidentified hitman...

with this in mind...

How come in the two versions of police logs, one refers to "Sister", and the other, "Daughter"...

It is remarkable that both of these police logs which deal with the call made by Jeremy to police, use the terms, "Sister", and "Daughter", whereas Jeremy used neither of these terms, he was adamant in his police interview that his father had used the term, "She has", or "He has", which does not necessarily equate with the police interpretation of the subject being a reference to Jeremys "sister", or to Ralph Bambers "daughter", since it could equally have been a reference to June, using the terms, "Mum",or "Wife"...

This is interesting, because based upon this insight into this matter,, it appears to have been the police who put Sheila into the frame, as the killer, not Jeremy who had sought to portray Sheila as the killer, at that stage...

[guest7363]

I get what your saying Mike, but how come on Jeremys own website on the video it says Jeremy has always maintained that on the night of the murder his father Neville Bamber phoned him on the night of the murders and said your sister has gone crazy she has got the gun? Jeremy still maintains this?

[mike tesko]

I get what your saying Mike, but how come on Jeremys own website on the video it says Jeremy has always maintained that on the night of the murder his father Neville Bamber phoned him on the night of the murders and said your sister has gone crazy she has got the gun? Jeremy still maintains this?

Hi justice,

He is adopting the 'path of least resistance' approach, as advised by his solicitors...

But, historically, in his first interview, he made a point about his father not using the term, "Sheila", or "Sister", which suggests he has been persuaded to take, the 'path of least resistance approach', which in effect causes himself more harm, than it does him good. When I was talking to Jeremy I would have pulled him up about him ignoring what he had said to police in interview under caution, contradicting what he is now promoting...

Bearing in mind what he said during those police interviews, as opposed to what you say he is saying now, it makes him appear as though he is lying, when it should be obvious that he has been pressurised to take this approach. Obviously, that decision is his own, nothing to do with me, nothing anywhere near the truth. He is the one currently convicted, and serving life sentences, his priorities are different to mine - I simply seek to find out the truth in all features of the case. The truth is what matters to me, but there are so many different versions of the truth it has become a mine field to try and get down to the actual detail of where the truth rests...

End of the day, at the time of his interviews, Jeremy is saying his father never used the term, "Sheila", or "Sister", but now 29 years later, he is supposedly saying he did. I know where my vote would go if I had to choose one version over the other, I would stick to his original version, not be persuaded to change it into something else, but I am not Jeremy, he has a mind of his own, and he has to present a case which will get him out of the predicament he has been in for nigh on 30 years...

[mike tesko]

Details in both logs have not been accurately recorded by PC West, or Malcom Bonnet, I believe that the actual contents of both are in fact forgeries, and that if the actual audio recording of Jeremys call to police was made available, it would settle the matter once and for all. Seems to me that the PC West, and Malcom Bonnet logs were introduced fraudulently because of the descrepancy regarding whether or not Jeremy called his girlfriend, before or after he called the police, and designed to leave nodoubt in the readers mind, that it was "Sheila" that Jeremy had been referring to when he called the police, in the guise of tge term, "daughter", or "Sister"...

These are the sort of tricks police and the prosecuting authorities get up to, to try and secure a convict someone...

[lookout]

Agreed,Mike. They put words into your mouth,and if you happen to be naïve to their tricks like Jeremy was,or dim like Stefan Kischko ? ( poor man ) then you're buggered.

[scipio_usmc]

When Jeremy was interviewed by Essex police, he denied that when his father called him he said to Jeremy that "Sheila had gone crazy", or that "Sheila had got the gun"...

Jeremy told the police in that interview that it was the police officers interpretation of what Jeremy told him, that which his father had said to Jeremy, which put the emphasis on Ralph Bambers reference to the person concerned being Jeremys sister...

Jeremy told police during those first interviews, that his father did not make it clear who he was referring to at the time of the call. His father had not said, "Sheila", or "Sister", but that he believed his father had used the term, "She has", or maybe, "He has"...

These are the facts, recorded in the official interview records - Ralph did not use the term, "Sheila", or "Sister". He said, either, "She has", or "He has"...

In the circumstances of this investigation, any reference by Ralph Bamber to "She has", could be a reference to either Sheila, or June Bamber had gone crazy, and got the gun (at that stage of the call), or that either Sheila or June had hone crazy, and that either Sheila or June had got the gun, or vice versa. For example, how does anyone know that during this brief telephone call from the scene, that what Ralph had been trying to say, but had not got an opportunity to elaborate upon, that June had gone crazy, and that Sheila had got the gun, or vice versa, referred to by Ralph with his use of the term, "She has gone crazy, she has got the gun"...

If Ralph used the term, "He has", it must have been a reference to an as yet unidentified hitman...

with this in mind...

How come in the two versions of police logs, one refers to "Sister", and the other, "Daughter"...

It is remarkable that both of these police logs which deal with the call made by Jeremy to police, use the terms, "Sister", and "Daughter", whereas Jeremy used neither of these terms, he was adamant in his police interview that his father had used the term, "She has", or "He has", which does not necessarily equate with the police interpretation of the subject being a reference to Jeremys "sister", or to Ralph Bambers "daughter", since it could equally have been a reference to June, using the terms, "Mum",or "Wife"...

This is interesting, because based upon this insight into this matter,, it appears to have been the police who put Sheila into the frame, as the killer, not Jeremy who had sought to portray Sheila as the killer, at that stage...

The log is refers to Jeremy's call.  Jeremy could not make up his mind whether he wanted to pretend Nevill called and said she had the gun or Sheila so he ended up saying he was unsure and that he could have said either.  His change came about when he was told there was evidence that Sheila can't have done it.  He changed to suggesting maybe Nevill said she not Sheila and was referring to someone else.
That doesn't fly with anyone sane though so even Jeremy dropped the suggestion and went back to saying it was Sheila.

You are trying to suggest the log refers to a call from Nevill not Jeremy which is absurd.  None of the version of West's log support such a claim.  Indeed for tha tto be true Nevill would have to have phoned police before Jeremy. 

That woudl require Nevill to have looked in a phone book for the Chelmsform Police station number so the claim he hung up form claling Jeremy then dialed police immediately so Jeremy got a busy signal fails.  He would have to go get the phone book. He would have dialed 999 if he were going to call the police not look up the Chelmsford Police station number. 999 callsdo not go to the Chelmsford Police station they go to the HQ Police staiton infromation room, a different station.

Had Nevill actually called the Chelmsford police station after calling Jeremy then the phone would have been able to ring as Nevill went to get the phone book not been busy like Jeremy claimed.  Moreover, Nevill's call would have been first and he would have contacted Bonnett in reference to it.  Bonnett was only contacted for Jeremy's call.  Moreover, West woudl have told Jeremy that he had already fielded a call directly from Nevill on the matter so not to worry it was already being taken care of.

The notion that Nevill called PC West himself before Jeremy called is totally absurd.  Not only for all the reasons already mentioned but also the fact that how could Nevill have so much time to call Jeremy- who would have taken several minutes just to answer the phone and then the time to look up the police station number and to call police?  Where was Sheila that he would have so much time and if he were planning to call police why would he have bothered to call Jeremy to come? 

Of course there was no phone call at all.  The killer walked into the master bedroom and opened fire on the parents.  There was nothing that occurred prior to this beyond Jeremy sneaking in and walking up to the bedroom.



 

 

[Jan]

Jeremy said that he had not been sure whether his father had said she or Sheila and he told EP if they checked with the person who had taken his call they would verify this . But the next day he did say Sheila in his statement because after the police told him what happened he assumed it was Sheila ( as did the police !)

funny how you make every excuse under the sun  and defend to the hilt the police whose statements a mans life depended on, when they were  very ambiguous and unclear. And especially Julie who changed her statement completely.

[scipio_usmc]

Jeremy said that he had not been sure whether his father had said she or Sheila and he told EP if they checked with the person who had taken his call they would verify this . But the next day he did say Sheila in his statement because after the police told him what happened he assumed it was Sheila ( as did the police !)

funny how you make every excuse under the sun  and defend to the hilt the police whose statements a mans life depended on, when they were  very ambiguous and unclear. And especially Julie who changed her statement completely.

I have no need to defend whether it said she or Sheila.  The difference means nothing.  Jeremy told the officers all about how his sister was a nutter and Nevill called to say she had a gun and had fired all weapons in the house.   Trying to pretend that Jeremy told PC West and the police on the scene that said Nevill told him someone had a gun but he was not sure who his father was referring to fails miserably, he blamed Sheila.  Anyone who tries to deny that is the one desperately spinning which in this case you are one of such persons.

In Jeremy's September 1985 interviews is where he tried spinning that maybe his father was not referring to Sheila but even there he ends up conceding HE thought his father was speaking about Sheila and told police Sheila had gone crazy, police were not sticking words in his mouth he blamed Sheila:







Police had no need to doctor the log to make it appear Jeremy was blaming Sheila.  Jeremy supporters look like lying idiots when they either try to deny he blamed Sheila in talking to police or when they allege Nevill made a phone call to the Chelmsford police station before Jeremy did.  Aside from it being absurd for him to look up the number in the phone book had that happened West would have told Jeremy he already knew because he had already fielded a call from his father and would not have needed Jeremy to quote his father. 

Julie added numerous details she did not give to police originally because she originally wanted to protect Jeremy.  Jeremy lied repeatedly he didn't just ommit details. He made things up and told different people different things.

The bottom line is that Jeremy supporters are stuck lying and making up pathetic excuses for Jeremy's lies to try to pretend it is possible he is innocent, the evidence is so strong that without lying there is no way to post anything at all in support of the claim he is innocent.

[mike tesko]

The truth of the matter, is how I spelled it out at the time of his interviews. In addition to the content of those interviews, I spent minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and a year or so, questioning Jeremy about this very point, and I can assure you that he did not use the term, "Sheila", or "Sister", when he spoke to police, otherwise I would have questioned him intensely on the contradiction...

Jeremy claimed it was the person who responded to his call who put the emphasis on the person being referred to as "Sheila", or his "Sister". We didn't know about the contents of the other police log, which uses the term, "Daughter", at that stage, so I cannot comment on that, other than to say that the contents of the two phone logs which refer to the subject as "Sister", and "Daughter" appear to be a fabrication, and clearly not terms mentioned by Jeremy...

What police were trying to do in Jeremys September 1985 police interviews was to disorientate him, confuse him, and trick him into making contradictory comments. I looked at all of this and came to the conclusion that in those police interviews, that Jeremy was being as honest as anyone in similar circumstances...

Ralph never used the term, " Sheila", or Sister"...

As a result, police fabricated those parts of these two logs...

The purpose of the police logs in this instance was supposed to record the exact words and terms used by Jeremy, who was recounting what his father had said to him in that last all important phone call - it was never as question of PC West, or Malcom Bonnet, paraphrasing what Jeremy had said, or what PC West spoke about with Malcom Bonnet...

There was no mention of "Sister", and there was no mention of "Daughter", by Jeremy, it's as simple as that, which means that the contents of both logs are inaccurate, they purport to record what Jeremy said to police in that all important call to police, but the truth of the matter, is that both logs got it absolutely and fundamentally wrong, because Sheila was not Ralph Bambers "Sister", and Sheila was not Jeremy Bambers, "Daughter"...

[JackiePreece]

Yawn !!

I didn't know you were a close friend of Julie's. ?

Now you can read people's minds ?

[mike tesko]

As a result of Jeremy's call to police, can somebody please explain to me how Jeremy used the term, "Daughter" when he was speaking to the police? Why would Ralph use the term, "Daughter", when speaking to Jeremy on the phone in the middle of the night?

It doesn't make sense, and don't add up, it's complete and utter garbage...

How can such nonsense be believed...

[scipio_usmc]

The truth of the matter, is how I spelled it out at the time of his interviews. In addition to the content of those interviews, I spent minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and a year or so, questioning Jeremy about this very point, and I can assure you that he did not use the term, "Sheila", or "Sister", when he spoke to police, otherwise I would have questioned him intensely on the contradiction...

Jeremy claimed it was the person who responded to his call who put the emphasis on the person being referred to as "Sheila", or his "Sister". We didn't know about the contents of the other police log, which uses the term, "Daughter", at that stage, so I cannot comment on that, other than to say that the contents of the two phone logs which refer to the subject as "Sister", and "Daughter" appear to be a fabrication, and clearly not terms mentioned by Jeremy...

What police were trying to do in Jeremys September 1985 police interviews was to disorientate him, confuse him, and trick him into making contradictory comments. I looked at all of this and came to the conclusion that in those police interviews, that Jeremy was being as honest as anyone in similar circumstances...

Ralph never used the term, " Sheila", or Sister"...

As a result, police fabricated those parts of these two logs...

The purpose of the police logs in this instance was supposed to record the exact words and terms used by Jeremy, who was recounting what his father had said to him in that last all important phone call - it was never as question of PC West, or Malcom Bonnet, paraphrasing what Jeremy had said, or what PC West spoke about with Malcom Bonnet...

There was no mention of "Sister", and there was no mention of "Daughter", by Jeremy, it's as simple as that, which means that the contents of both logs are inaccurate, they purport to record what Jeremy said to police in that all important call to police, but the truth of the matter, is that both logs got it absolutely and fundamentally wrong, because Sheila was not Ralph Bambers "Sister", and Sheila was not Jeremy Bambers, "Daughter"...

The log was altered to try to make it look like Jeremy was blaming Sheila when he never actually did so, is that really what you are trying to claim?

Because he told the police on the scene all about how Sheila was a nutter and fired all the guns int he house and how his father called him to say she had a gun.  Trying to pretend the only piece of evidence that demosntrates Jeremy blamed Sheila is the log is a total waste of time and effort.

[mike tesko]

Even Jeremy was not exactly sure by the time of his interview, what term his father had used in that all important last phone call, but police were adamant, in one version at least, that Ralph had used the term, "Sister", and in another version Ralph had used the term, "Daughter" - now which term was used, "She has", or Sheila", or "Sister" or "Daughter", bearing in mind there was only one version spoken about in truth and reality...

[mike tesko]

You are trying to suggest the log refers to a call from Nevill not Jeremy which is absurd.  None of the version of West's log support such a claim.  Indeed for tha tto be true Nevill would have to have phoned police before Jeremy. 

That woudl require Nevill to have looked in a phone book for the Chelmsform Police station number so the claim he hung up form claling Jeremy then dialed police immediately so Jeremy got a busy signal fails.  He would have to go get the phone book. He would have dialed 999 if he were going to call the police not look up the Chelmsford Police station number. 999 callsdo not go to the Chelmsford Police station they go to the HQ Police staiton infromation room, a different station.

Had Nevill actually called the Chelmsford police station after calling Jeremy then the phone would have been able to ring as Nevill went to get the phone book not been busy like Jeremy claimed.  Moreover, Nevill's call would have been first and he would have contacted Bonnett in reference to it.  Bonnett was only contacted for Jeremy's call.  Moreover, West woudl have told Jeremy that he had already fielded a call directly from Nevill on the matter so not to worry it was already being taken care of.

The notion that Nevill called PC West himself before Jeremy called is totally absurd.  Not only for all the reasons already mentioned but also the fact that how could Nevill have so much time to call Jeremy- who would have taken several minutes just to answer the phone and then the time to look up the police station number and to call police?  Where was Sheila that he would have so much time and if he were planning to call police why would he have bothered to call Jeremy to come? 

Of course there was no phone call at all.  The killer walked into the master bedroom and opened fire on the parents.  There was nothing that occurred prior to this beyond Jeremy sneaking in and walking up to the bedroom.

Listen, your reverse psychology isn't going to work on me and if Ralph didn't make his own call to police, why the hell would Jeremy say, "My daughter has got hold of one of my guns"...

Now,stop being stupid, and try to think before you open your gob...

[scipio_usmc]

Even Jeremy was not exactly sure by the time of his interview, what term his father had used in that all important last phone call, but police were adamant, in one version at least, that Ralph had used the term, "Sister", and in another version Ralph had used the term, "Daughter" - now which term was used, "She has", or Sheila", or "Sister" or "Daughter", bearing in mind there was only one version spoken about in truth and reality...

It doesn't matter what term was used, Jeremy soon realized there was no way to wiggle out of it that he represented to police that Nevill told him Sheila had a gun and that is what he imparted to police.  Jeremy abandoned the argument that he started to make which was essentially, "maybe my dad meant some else had a gun and I misunderstood"

Even if he had not abandoned that claim, that claim doesn't involve police wisting Jeremy's words it amounted to Jeremy misunderstanding his father.  This thread is about the log.  Teh claim wa sbeing made that the log was altered to conceal that Jeremy wasn't sure who his father said had a gun.  That argument fails because Jeremy told the cops on the scene it was Sheila. 

The next allegaiton wa stha tit was altered to hide that the log was from a call that came from Nevill.  That fails as well for a variety of reasons but especially because Nevill would not have looked up the Chelmsford station number he woudl have dialed 999 and the call would have gone to a different station then not to the line West was manning.  Moreover, had he called West first then West woudl have told Jeremy he already knew and was already sending a unit because he had already spoken to his father.

Nor does it make sense that the time would be changed, if the time were going to be changed it would be changed to match the time on Bonnet's log.

No claims about the log being altered make any sense.