Author Topic: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing  (Read 10930 times)

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Offline grahameb

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #45 on: July 24, 2014, 11:18:AM »
Sorry. Mis read.

Mary Mugford testified this. I have already created a thread. Would you like me to find it ?
Oh I see muggy's mum. Ever heard of chinese whispers?

Offline Adam

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #46 on: July 24, 2014, 11:23:AM »
There was also a thread on whether a mother would lie under oath to protect her daughter. Started by April.

Most people said she would not.

Would you like me to find it for you ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #47 on: July 24, 2014, 11:36:AM »
There was also a thread on whether a mother would lie under oath to protect her daughter. Started by April.

Most people said she would not.

Would you like me to find it for you ?
Half truths are sometimes more damaging than outright lies Adam. You will probably notice this now that I've mentioned it when it happens to you. You've already seen it in regard to myself by others on the forum. But you hadn't noticed it because you think the things they say of me to be the truth? This is happening to Jeremy all the time, but you, knowing no better think the half truths are in fact the whole truth.

Offline Adam

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #48 on: July 24, 2014, 11:46:AM »
Do you think the seven people who testified in court were lying ?

Jeremy agreed with some of it. Regarding June & Sheila.

There is no record of him refuting the blazing row AE said he had with Neville just before the massacre. There is also no record of what he thought of the twins. Although Julie said he resented there subsidised life.

Mary Mugford testified June was planning to amend her will in favour of the twins. Source, Jeremy. There is no record of Jeremy refuting this.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 11:54:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #49 on: July 24, 2014, 12:02:PM »
Do you think the seven people who testified in court were lying ?

Jeremy agreed with some of it. Regarding June & Sheila.

There is no record of him refuting the blazing row AE said he had with Neville. There is also no record of what he thought of the twins. Although Julie said he resented there subsidised life.

Mary Mugford testified June was planning to amend her will in favour of the twins. Source, Jeremy. There is no record of Jeremy refuting this.
There are a lot of things I don't agree with on this forum. But I don't refute all of them. Yes I do think that some lied on oath, or at least were economical with the truth. Yes I do believe a mother may lie for her daughter in order to protect her from prosecution. Anf finally I don't think that everything was rosy in the family garden concerning the so called extended family. I believe there was discord and hatred among themselves. Some of this boiled over into the public eye eg: when John Eaton punched Ralph in the eye.

And yes I think it entirely possible that the truth can be stretched so far as to give a distorted view of Jeremy's relationship with his parents. He is also recorded in one of the books I believe that he loved to play with the children. It would have to be a very hard man to kill two children and I just don't see that hardness in Jeremy? You said yourself that he was a mummy's boy and Ralph apparently called him a nansy boy? I believe this crime was done by someone who was very disturbed in the mind. 5 lives for below £500,000. Nah! Not effeminate Jeremy. It just don't add up.

I suggested to scipio that he wrote to Jeremy and he could not see any purpose of that? The purpose in doing that is to get your own impression of him. Otherwise to put it in plain English you are only believing what others say about him in effect. Hearsay in other words. You have no way of knowing that these people are telling the truth or not. You can only trust they are.

Offline lookout

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2014, 12:03:PM »
Do you think the seven people who testified in court were lying ?

Jeremy agreed with some of it. Regarding June & Sheila.

There is no record of him refuting the blazing row AE said he had with Neville. There is also no record of what he thought of the twins. Although Julie said he resented there subsidised life.

Mary Mugford testified June was planning to amend her will in favour of the twins. Source, Jeremy. There is no record of Jeremy refuting this.





What you speak of is not rare,it's called life,and goes on in thousands of families so it wasn't unique to the Bambers. People are posting as if they're absolutely horrified at some of the things that went on,mainly about Jeremy of course. ( todays headlines are worse,as is society in general )

I'd imagine that a safe distance was kept from the Bambers towards their relatives,as Neville was no fool and he certainly would have seen through the lot of them. He obviously let Jeremy find out for himself.

I wouldn't rely on what AE said. The " object " that was pivotal to the case didn't even get a mention in her statement ?

Offline Adam

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2014, 12:37:PM »
I know family arguments are part of life. I am just trying to show these contributed to Jeremy making his decision.

There were lots of other reasons. Oh and £436,000.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2014, 12:37:PM »
Here are some of the other reasons. Apart from the £436,000. Although the judge in court said it was likely to be a lot more.

ALREADY IN PRISON ON THE FARM:

Was it 14 or 17 hour days on the farm ? Either way long days. At court Jeremy said he had seen his fathers will which tied him to working on the farm until Neville died.


BOARDING SCHOOL:

Mary Mugford said Jeremy 'never forgave June for sending him to boarding school.


THINGS WERE SLIPPING AWAY:

Jeremy was 24. It was the 'loads of money' era. Jeremy wanted to be a rich playboy based in London. But told Julie he had 'too much to lose' by walking away. He had neither the talent or determination to make it alone.

Mary Mugford said in court Jeremy had told her June was going to amend her will in favour of the twins.


OPPORTUNITY:

There was an opportunity and ready made scapegoat.


HATRED:

People testified how Jeremy hated his parents. Julie testified how Jeremy said Sheila upset him when younger.


RESENTMENT:

Sheila was living rent & work free in London. And would have inherited as much as Jeremy when Neville/June deceased. But how many hours had she worked on the farm ? And how many hours would she put in after inheriting ?


DOING EVERYONE A FAVOUR:

Neville was apparently 'ready to be put to pasture', June was a 'religious maniac', Sheila needed being 'put out of her misery' & the twins were bound to be effected by all this. Even Colin would benefit as he would have more time to look for work without the burden of two children.


PROVING JULIE WRONG, AND IMPRESSING HER: 

Julie obviously never believed Jeremy would do something so horrendous. Even on the night she dismissed him. On TV she said Jeremy used to 'say things to shock people'.


STATUS, POWER, FAME:

Jeremy would instantly obtain these. He offered a 'Sun' journalist his life story prior to being charged.


TO SHOW HE COULD ACHIEVE SOMETHING:

The perfect crime and frame. Jeremy was so proud. Ringing Julie on the night. Then telling her later but giving himself a proxy. He later boasted to Liz Rimmington 'only I know what really happened that night'.


ON THE DAY:

Spending 14, or was it 17 hours working on the farm. Watching Sheila & the twins strolling around on their free holiday. A rare opportunity with everyone at WHF. Julies dismissal. Maybe Jeremy had an argument at WHF that night. BW said there was always a strained atmosphere when Jeremy was present.


THE CARAVAN BREAK IN:

BW said June & Neville knew about this. Further damaging their relationship with Jeremy. Was it now beyond repair ? Jeremy and June had not spoken for years according to Mary Mugford.


ADOPTION:

Jeremy was not related by blood. He was adopted and then sent to boarding school. Before persuading his parents to finance some jaunts abroad. Now he was a farm labourer. Complaining about his adoptive parents interfering in his life. Parents he did not like.


THE BUSINESS:

AE says Jeremy and Neville had a blazing row just before the murders. Neville would always have the final say as Jeremy only had a small share. This would have frustrated the 'would be' business executive Jeremy.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 12:49:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2014, 12:49:PM »
I know family arguments are part of life. I am just trying to show these contributed to Jeremy making his decision.

There were lots of other reasons. Oh and £436,000.
What, to kill 5 people for when he had half his granny's estate to look forward to? Not a chance.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2014, 12:52:PM »
Here are some of the other reasons. Apart from the £436,000. Although the judge in court said it was likely to be a lot more.

ALREADY IN PRISON ON THE FARM:

Was it 14 or 17 hour days on the farm ? Either way long days. At court Jeremy said he had seen his fathers will which tied him to working on the farm until Neville died.


BOARDING SCHOOL:

Mary Mugford said Jeremy 'never forgave June for sending him to boarding school.


THINGS WERE SLIPPING AWAY:

Jeremy was 24. It was the 'loads of money' era. Jeremy wanted to be a rich playboy based in London. But told Julie he had 'too much to lose' by walking away. He had neither the talent or determination to make it alone.

Mary Mugford said in court Jeremy had told her June was going to amend her will in favour of the twins.


OPPORTUNITY:

There was an opportunity and ready made scapegoat.


HATRED:

People testified how Jeremy hated his parents. Julie testified how Jeremy said Sheila upset him when younger.


RESENTMENT:

Sheila was living rent & work free in London. And would have inherited as much as Jeremy when Neville/June deceased. But how many hours had she worked on the farm ? And how many hours would she put in after inheriting ?


DOING EVERYONE A FAVOUR:

Neville was apparently 'ready to be put to pasture', June was a 'religious maniac', Sheila needed being 'put out of her misery' & the twins were bound to be effected by all this. Even Colin would benefit as he would have more time to look for work without the burden of two children.


PROVING JULIE WRONG, AND IMPRESSING HER: 

Julie obviously never believed Jeremy would do something so horrendous. Even on the night she dismissed him. On TV she said Jeremy used to 'say things to shock people'.


STATUS, POWER, FAME:

Jeremy would instantly obtain these. He offered a 'Sun' journalist his life story prior to being charged.


TO SHOW HE COULD ACHIEVE SOMETHING:

The perfect crime and frame. Jeremy was so proud. Ringing Julie on the night. Then telling her later but giving himself a proxy. He later boasted to Liz Rimmington 'only I know what really happened that night'.


ON THE DAY:

Spending 14, or was it 17 hours working on the farm. Watching Sheila & the twins strolling around on their free holiday. A rare opportunity with everyone at WHF. Julies dismissal. Maybe Jeremy had an argument at WHF that night. BW said there was always a strained atmosphere when Jeremy was present.


THE CARAVAN BREAK IN:

BW said June & Neville knew about this. Further damaging their relationship with Jeremy. Was it now beyond repair ? Jeremy and June had not spoken for years according to Mary Mugford.


ADOPTION:

Jeremy was not related by blood. He was adopted and then sent to boarding school. Before persuading his parents to finance some jaunts abroad. Now he was a farm labourer. Complaining about his adoptive parents interfering in his life. Parents he did not like.


THE BUSINESS:

AE says Jeremy and Neville had a blazing row just before the murders. Neville would always have the final say as Jeremy only had a small share. This would have frustrated the 'would be' business executive Jeremy.
As I said, one way vision. Just out of curiosity why are you so obsessed with Jeremy?

Offline Adam

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2014, 12:52:PM »
You mean his granny was going to bypass June, Neville and other relatives and hand everything to Jeremy and Sheila. Source please.

When did she die ? Wikipedia says Jeremy took legal action over her will decades later.

How much was she worth ? Again, source please.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 12:53:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

No-Bits

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2014, 12:57:PM »
What, to kill 5 people for when he had half his granny's estate to look forward to? Not a chance.

Yeah, I think you have your wires crossed a little bit there Grahame, if Nevill and June were alive, then Jeremy wouldn't have inherited much (if anything) from the Speakman estate.

Offline Adam

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2014, 12:58:PM »
In 2003 he began a High Court action to recover £1.2m from the estate of his adoptive grandmother, Mabel Speakman, arguing that he should have inherited her home at Carbonnells Farm, Wix.  Source Wikipedia.

Wish I had inherited a home from either set of grandparents. I didn't.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 12:59:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2014, 01:01:PM »
Jeremy's lawsuit was unsuccessful.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

No-Bits

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Re: Misconceptions About Jeremys Upbringing
« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2014, 01:02:PM »
You mean his granny was going to bypass June, Neville and other relatives and hand everything to Jeremy and Sheila. Source please.

When did she die ? Wikipedia says Jeremy took legal action over her will decades later.

How much was she worth ? Again, source please.

I think the consensus is that she died in February 1986, however Lomax suggests it was September 1985.
I don't know any figures, but her estate was 'substantial', she owned majority shares in Osea Caravan park and owned the Vaulty Manor opposite.