Order of Inheritance

[Jane]

So who was the next of kin, who inherited the Bamber Estate?

Given the number of accusations against all of the different relatives framing JB to obtain the inheritance, surely somebody must know? 

I imagine that Nevill's relatives would inherit as HIS next of kin, BUT if it included what June had left, might that not have been contested by those who who have been the beneficiaries of June's estate.

[nugnug]

So who was the next of kin, who inherited the Bamber Estate?

Given the number of accusations against all of the different relatives framing JB to obtain the inheritance, surely somebody must know? 

you claim that you know the relatives if that is the case why don't you ask them.

[scipio_usmc]

How nice the will finally thanks Harters.

ok this is easy. 

If Jeremy just killed his parents he would have been forced to continue to farm in order to get eveyrthing except 10,000 pounds which woudl go to Sheila. 

Since he didn't want to continue farming he would have to split the estate 50/50 with Sheila.  The twins would get Sheila's share if she were dead so he needed to kill them too. 

By killing them all he gets the whole estate and doesn't have to continue farming in order to get it all.

The 10,000 pounds to Sheila woul dhave been no biggie but being froced to continue farming would have been.

He neither wanted to continue farming nor to share the estate 50/50 so killed off the other heirs along with his parents.

The motive is pretty straightforward and comports with what Julie said he had told her about not wanting to share the estate.

Greed takes many forms when it comes to this sort of thing.  Sometimes murder other times robbing people blind before they die and taking advantage of the vulnerable.

My maternal grandmother had 12 siblings.  Most of her brothers never married but rather all lived together until death and thus accumilated a sizable amount of money in addition to a home in NYC which was worth alot simply because any home in NYC is expensive. Eventually all bothers but 1 had died.  He thus inherited the house and all the money of the other brothers.  My grandmother had given them money to buy the house but was not on the deed.  The deed passed to the last living brother simply by the others on the deed dying.  Technically their money was to be shared by all siblings but my grandmother supported the money going staying with the brothers until the last died and at that point for any remaining siblings to inherit in equal shares.  4 siblings including my grandmother had married and moved out over the years. My grandmother, another sister and her brother were the only ones left.   My grandmother and nephews called him to try to see how he was and even tried to visit but got no answer.  They saw a giant dumpster and wondered what was going on.

It turns out that he had fell and hurt his leg.  The remaining sister and her son took him to their home to "take care of him".  They actually dumped him in a nearby hospital where he stayed for severla months for various ailments until he died.  The also had him give her power of attorney.  She sold the house and put the proceeds in a joint bank account and eventually the funds were all removed.  She also took all the cash but no one knows how much there was because it was never documented.  The brothers had unknown sums of cash around because they did not believe in banks. It was for sure over $100,000 they had hidden in the house. She never called anyone in the family to say he was hurt or where he was so no one could even visit.  Local hospitals near his house were called but naturally he was not there so nothing turned up.

After he died is when the family found out where he had been.  She claimed he had no assets and death he gave them all to her for taking care of him so there was no estate to split equally. 

They were so greedy and miserable that they stripped him of his assets and refused to tell the family where he was so that they could not find out how he was being bilked and ask him if he truly wanted to give away all his assets to the.  In turn he was deprived of his family visiting him while he was ill.  During an argument they admitted he wanted to know why his family was not visiting and that they told him no one else cares about him.

They then blamed the rest of the family for not doing enough to find out what happened to him.  I responded saying, how were we supposed to know you took him to a hospital 100 miles from where he lived and that you had him.  Were we supposed to call every hospital in the state? The only way to know would be for you to tell us and you intentionally did not say a thing about him being there for months so you could rob him blind before he died.

They did not know how to respond.

So for the sake of money he rotted in a hospital thinking his friends and most of his family did not care about him.   

It is astonishing what some people will do out of greed.     

[tyler]

Was it not decided that Nevill's estate go the Pargeter children,since his mother and siblings were deceased,and Junes estate passed to Mrs Speakman,which then passed to Pam B upon her death,who in turn gave it to her children as she didn't want it?

[scipio_usmc]

I imagine that Nevill's relatives would inherit as HIS next of kin, BUT if it included what June had left, might that not have been contested by those who who have been the beneficiaries of June's estate.

By rights each will should have been probated and that is ultimately what happened.  The executor planned to give everything through June's will thus shafting Nevill's heirs but they sued and the settlement was to probate each will which is what should have happened in the first place.  Had they not settled the court likely would have ordered the same result anyway.

Since there were no alternative beneficiaries for the residuary estate (the estate left after all bequests) it would flow under the rules of intestate succession:

Since there were no living offspring that means:

1) to any living parents

2) If no living parents then to siblings and their offspring

3) If no living siblings (or sibling offspring) then to grandparents

4) If no living grandparents then to aunts/uncles or their offspring

[scipio_usmc]

Was it not decided that Nevill's estate go the Pargeter children,since his mother and siblings were deceased,and Junes estate passed to Mrs Speakman,which then passed to Pam B upon her death,who in turn gave it to her children as she didn't want it?

Speakman died before June's estate was settled.

Per the rules I posted earlier first to living parents and if no living parents then to siblings and their offspring.

Her only sibling was Pam so it all went to Pam.   

I think I recall reading Nevill's siblings were dead so instead it went to his niece and nephew (siblings' offspring)

 

[grahameb]

How nice the will finally thanks Harters.

ok this is easy. 

If Jeremy just killed his parents he would have been forced to continue to farm in order to get eveyrthing except 10,000 pounds which woudl go to Sheila. 

Since he didn't want to continue farming he would have to split the estate 50/50 with Sheila.  The twins would get Sheila's share if she were dead so he needed to kill them too. 

By killing them all he gets the whole estate and doesn't have to continue farming in order to get it all.

The 10,000 pounds to Sheila woul dhave been no biggie but being froced to continue farming would have been.

He neither wanted to continue farming nor to share the estate 50/50 so killed off the other heirs along with his parents.

The motive is pretty straightforward and comports with what Julie said he had told her about not wanting to share the estate.

Greed takes many forms when it comes to this sort of thing.  Sometimes murder other times robbing people blind before they die and taking advantage of the vulnerable.

My maternal grandmother had 12 siblings.  Most of her brothers never married but rather all lived together until death and thus accumilated a sizable amount of money in addition to a home in NYC which was worth alot simply because any home in NYC is expensive. Eventually all bothers but 1 had died.  He thus inherited the house and all the money of the other brothers.  My grandmother had given them money to buy the house but was not on the deed.  The deed passed to the last living brother simply by the others on the deed dying.  Technically their money was to be shared by all siblings but my grandmother supported the money going staying with the brothers until the last died and at that point for any remaining siblings to inherit in equal shares.  4 siblings including my grandmother had married and moved out over the years. My grandmother, another sister and her brother were the only ones left.   My grandmother and nephews called him to try to see how he was and even tried to visit but got no answer.  They saw a giant dumpster and wondered what was going on.

It turns out that he had fell and hurt his leg.  The remaining sister and her son took him to their home to "take care of him".  They actually dumped him in a nearby hospital where he stayed for severla months for various ailments until he died.  The also had him give her power of attorney.  She sold the house and put the proceeds in a joint bank account and eventually the funds were all removed.  She also took all the cash but no one knows how much there was because it was never documented.  The brothers had unknown sums of cash around because they did not believe in banks. It was for sure over $100,000 they had hidden in the house. She never called anyone in the family to say he was hurt or where he was so no one could even visit.  Local hospitals near his house were called but naturally he was not there so nothing turned up.

After he died is when the family found out where he had been.  She claimed he had no assets and death he gave them all to her for taking care of him so there was no estate to split equally. 

They were so greedy and miserable that they stripped him of his assets and refused to tell the family where he was so that they could not find out how he was being bilked and ask him if he truly wanted to give away all his assets to the.  In turn he was deprived of his family visiting him while he was ill.  During an argument they admitted he wanted to know why his family was not visiting and that they told him no one else cares about him.

They then blamed the rest of the family for not doing enough to find out what happened to him.  I responded saying, how were we supposed to know you took him to a hospital 100 miles from where he lived and that you had him.  Were we supposed to call every hospital in the state? The only way to know would be for you to tell us and you intentionally did not say a thing about him being there for months so you could rob him blind before he died.

They did not know how to respond.

So for the sake of money he rotted in a hospital thinking his friends and most of his family did not care about him.   

It is astonishing what some people will do out of greed.     

There are indeed some greedy and wicked people about scipio. I could tell you about another case where a man took all his aunt's money and invested it in property abroad and lost the lot. But I'll reserve that one for another time. The outcome of course was that justice was finally done and he was sent to prison.

[No-Bits]

I imagine that Nevill's relatives would inherit as HIS next of kin, BUT if it included what June had left, might that not have been contested by those who who have been the beneficiaries of June's estate.

Was it not decided that Nevill's estate go the Pargeter children,since his mother and siblings were deceased,and Junes estate passed to Mrs Speakman,which then passed to Pam B upon her death,who in turn gave it to her children as she didn't want it?

That is what I would have thought also, however that wasn't the case, for some reason which I still don't really understand, it all appears to have gone to Mabel Speakman.

Extract from 2002 Appeal Judgement:

Mr Lawson, QC, no doubt having carried out the necessary research, produced an agreed note for the jury which is acknowledged before us as being an accurate statement of the law. This can also be summarised to the effect that if the deceased died in order of seniority (presumed in the absence of contrary evidence) or if Sheila was found to have survived her parents then, subject only to any specific legacies in any wills (as to which no-one had any information) the Bamber estates would pass to June Bamber's and Pamela Boutflour's mother, Mabel Speakman.

Then, as others have mentioned, the Pargeters later tried to make a claim for a portion that they believed was owed to them. They were either successful or they successfully came to an out of court settlement, I forget which now, but that is unimportant.

[Jane]

If the will was drawn up in 1979, Jeremy would still have been a minor and probably still at school. Could the constraints imposed upon his inheriting at that time be enforced once he had come of age?

[No-Bits]

Right, okay, so the entire Bamber estate (less specific amounts given to others named in June & Nevills Will) legally bounces across to Mabel Speakman.

We then know that due to Robert Boutflours concerns over Jeremy's guilt, he seeks advice from his solicitor 'Mr Rant' (funny name) as to what can be done to remove Jeremy from Mabel Speakmans Will.

At the end of August 1985, Mabel Speakman is told about the murders and the families opinion that Jeremy was responsible.

At the start of September Mabel Speakman, in the presence of her doctor and Solicitor amends her Will to remove Jeremy.

She then passes away a few days later.

[tyler]

Right, okay, so the entire Bamber estate (less specific amounts given to others named in June & Nevills Will) legally bounces across to Mabel Speakman.

We then know that due to Robert Boutflours concerns over Jeremy's guilt, he seeks advice from his solicitor 'Mr Rant' (funny name) as to what can be done to remove Jeremy from Mabel Speakmans Will.

At the end of August 1985, Mabel Speakman is told about the murders and the families opinion that Jeremy was responsible.

At the start of September Mabel Speakman, in the presence of her doctor and Solicitor amends her Will to remove Jeremy.

She then passes away a few days later.

Are you sure? Thought she passed away in Feb 1986?

[scipio_usmc]

That is what I would have thought also, however that wasn't the case, for some reason which I still don't really understand, it all appears to have gone to Mabel Speakman.

Extract from 2002 Appeal Judgement:
Then, as others have mentioned, the Pargeters later tried to make a claim for a portion that they believed was owed to them. They were either successful or they successfully came to an out of court settlement, I forget which now, but that is unimportant.

Actually this is easy to understand.

If there is no living spouse and no offspring then the parents of a deceased ar enext in line.

The Appeal Court was talking about at the time of the murders how Mabel Speakman was next in line BUT did not actually say she received the inheritance.

If she was still alive when the estate was settled then she would have inheritied but she was dead so instead it went to June's siste because if no parents are alive then siblings are next in line.

Since granny's will left the residuary to her Pam the result was actually the same anyway.  Had granny's will left the residuary to someoen else tha tperson might have argued they deserved it instea doof pam and that even though granny died before the estate was settled that the assets should still have flowed into her estate and been given to her heirs listed in her will.
 
So in effect both paths led to the same door so to speak.

[No-Bits]

If the will was drawn up in 1979, Jeremy would still have been a minor and probably still at school. Could the constraints imposed upon his inheriting at that time be enforced once he had come of age?

18 I think April.

[No-Bits]

Are you sure? Thought she passed away in Feb 1986?

I think I'm sure. 

[grahameb]

No one seems to want to answer the question. I think it's been clear on here over the years who people THINK got the Bamber estate.

I thought I had answered that? It goes to the next of kin. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out who the next of kin were going to be. The Boutflour family and I suspect they had a good idea about the will as well? Although of course I doubt very much that they wanted it to turn out the way it did?