A shooting incident at White House farm

[lookout]

Nobody,not even Jeremy knew how sick Sheila was. He was only repeating in his own language what he'd heard already from his parents,,and that wouldn't have been very much.

[nugnug]

I understand what you're saying and what you mean,but when you KNOW there's a siege,surely the police would be prepared to storm in ? Not sit and twiddle their thumbs for nearly 3 hours.
As it happened,,Jeremy went down for more reasons than enough which wasn't his fault,whereas,if that time hadn't been wasted,then proof of his innocence would have been right there.

I feel very strongly about that time having been wasted. To me it's as bad as the fact that no times of death had been reported.

well thats the reason they needed to blame him they needed a scapegoat for there own cock this happens a lot.

[lookout]

 He's been a scapegoat that's for sure. No getting away from it,,but sadly,he's not a forceful character to have been able to have got his point across. I'd have screamed at everyone and probably made matters worse,,though he couldn't have ended up any worse himself if he had have carried on.

[Jan]

Come back Bill - I am interested to hear more.

We all get jaded with going round in circles and as I have half the posters on ignore its refreshing to see new posts.

[nugnug]

I think bill is implying it was not a siege situation originally.  The call from Jeremy never stated any shots had been fired.  But he feels there was more info received by the time the second  car arrived that made them hold back. Why would they attempt contact for so long if they heard or saw nothing.  Also i am not convinced about some of the alleged conversation with Jeremy about Shiela as for some reason it does not appear in the original note books or statements of  the officers that were with him :D

well they could of done 2 things when they got they could of ether said theirs no clearly no problem here and gone home again..

or they could of gone in but they did neither.

i mean if nobody had heard a gunshot how did they know it was a siege situation.

[nugnug]

well with that sort of situation there normally geting to go in.

they would normaly try and establish contact and if there wasnt any contact they would go in.

[maggie]

Yes lookout there is one difference between this case and a seige situation. In a seige situation communication is established. But here it is alleged that no communication was established. I agree, 3 hours does seem strange to say the least?

It does seem strange Grahame, can remember reading in the past the reason for waiting was for daylight but why?  I cannot believe the police didn't make any effort to ensure the safety of occupants of the farmhouse.  They knew there were  two, six year old boys and made no attempt to ensure their safety?  That seems negligent to my mind?

[Caroline]

It does seem strange Grahame, can remember reading in the past the reason for waiting was for daylight but why?  I cannot believe the police didn't make any effort to ensure the safety of occupants of the farmhouse.  They knew there were  two, six year old boys and made no attempt to ensure their safety?  That seems negligent to my mind?

They did believe they were dealing with someone unhinged so I imagine that that's why they were cautious. Two young boys or not, they are trained to maintain the safety of their own officers first.

[Jan]

They did believe they were dealing with someone unhinged so I imagine that that's why they were cautious. Two young boys or not, they are trained to maintain the safety of their own officers first.

I agree however if they knew shots had been fired but they did not . the house was silent and there was no movement except a trick of the light why would you try for so long to contact someone inside the house. In theory if Jeremy was guilty there would have been nothing ,  nothing at all to stop them entering the house. no noise , no movement and jeremy outside asking them to go in.

[nugnug]

It does seem strange Grahame, can remember reading in the past the reason for waiting was for daylight but why?  I cannot believe the police didn't make any effort to ensure the safety of occupants of the farmhouse.  They knew there were  two, six year old boys and made no attempt to ensure their safety?  That seems negligent to my mind?

it was totally negligent and i think sooner or later that would of been exposed and they knew it.

[maggie]

They did believe they were dealing with someone unhinged so I imagine that that's why they were cautious. Two young boys or not, they are trained to maintain the safety of their own officers first.

Yes, I agree, they have to ensure the safety of their own officers and can see there are arguments on both sides but still find it a bit odd that they did absolutely nothing for so long 

[nugnug]

well whats the point of having an armed unit there if there not going to do anything.

and why if they heard nothing and saw nothing were they still frightened to go in.

[lookout]

Fire officers don't think of their own safety. They daren't, if children in particular are in danger. I accept and appreciate the fact that they're equipped for any eventuality,but so should police officers be by wearing bullet-proof clothing if and when the need arises,even if it happens to be a false alarm.

There was no damned excuse---------no sound,no shooting,nothing. The raid team were as much use as an ash-tray on a motorbike. As were EP !

[nugnug]

well if there was nobody alive in there they couldn't negotiate with anybody.

and sooner or later it would of become clear that there was nobody to negotiate with.

[lookout]

We don't know of course? Perhaps if they had heard shots they would have gone in? As I said I believe they are trained to wait. But wait and negotiate. Which might mean that they were negotiating?

Grahame,,if shots were heard,then that lets Jeremy off the hook does it not ?