The caravan break in. A taste for money, a taste to massacre ?

[Alias]

Steve, he was earning £200 a week, a phenomenal  sum in the 1980's. MUCH more, I imagine, than farm labourers. He had his own house, a car and probably numerous other perks. He also had £2000 in his account when he was arrested so how COULD he have been living beyond his means............though of course, this doesn't prove that he ISN'T a mass murderer.

He was fairly well off, no doubt about it. + His future was secured in every way thinkable. If he did this, I don´t think the primary reason was greed. To me the killings seem "personal", very violent and overkill, very messy (except in the case of Sheila); not the cool, calculated murders some guilters make them out to be.

[maggie]

His parents helped finance for a few jaunts abroad when Jeremy was younger.

But he now had to settle for a labourers wage working on the farm. Working long hours as well.

A million miles from the lifestyle he wanted.

Jeremy saved up and paid for most of his 'jaunts' abroad.  I don't understand what was wrong with him travelling abroad and seeing other countries before he settled down.  Many, many late teens/early 20s go abroad either to the third world to work on projects or to Australia and New Zealand so it wasn't that unusual, especially with his public school background and education.
Don't think he was really on a labourers wage.  Farm labourers were very badly paid but Jeremy with his free house and car as well as his wages was very comfortable at 24.  I cannot believe the risk of killing all those people and not getting caught was worth it just to get a half a million quid a few years earlier than if he waited for Granny Speakman to die.....  doesn't ring true to me.

[scipio_usmc]

I know he had never been violent, but he still crossed a line. I wonder why he did it, the loot wasn´t that great. Rehearsal to test his nerve?
I never liked this break-in, it is in the back of my mind and is one contributing factor to me being on the fence about the killings.
There is something else I read about that bothers me. I only remember it vaguely, and I don´t remember where I read it. It was about Jeremy spying on the house of a couple. He would sit in his car, as far as I recall. This is all I can remember. Can anyone help me?

1000 pounds is a nice haul if you know you won't get caught. If you take Julie's claims at face value he got a thrill from doing illegal things and loved to spite his family so it was the thrill as well as the money.

I don't see it as a test run, I see it more as demonstrating his greed and immaturity that he still got off  on petty crime that most people grow out of by the time they turn 21 and enjoyed spiting his family.

If this tale had been a literary work instead of real life the burglary this would be viewed as foreshadowing. 

I never heard the peeper claims it sounds made up.  Peepers tend more towards sexual crimes but if true would not be a good sign.           

[Jane]

He was also making money from cannabis sales,but he had expensive tastes in gastronomy and would book smart London hotels for himself and Julie and shower her with gifts. Claire Powell touches upon this in her book.

A vast amount of money to spend and still be in credit. Even more amazing is that he'd taken holidays, presumably paying for Julie AND he'd given her £400 pounds for a holiday to Malta, which in those days would certainly have bought her accommodation in a 5* hotel. There doesn't seem to have been any evidence of him borrowing from anywhere or much would have been made of it.

[Adam]

When did his gran die ?

Wikipedia says Jeremy filed a lawsuit in 2003.

[Steve_uk]

He was fairly well off, no doubt about it. + His future was secured in every way thinkable. If he did this, I don´t think the primary reason was greed. To me the killings seem "personal", very violent and overkill, very messy (except in the case of Sheila); not the cool, calculated murders some guilters make them out to be.

But in some ways that's worse Alias if he's stealing for kicks why not kill for kicks as well. He told Julie how Nevill "put up a good fight for his age",suggesting that the whole thing was part entertainment for him.

[Alias]

1000 pounds is a nice haul if you know you won't get caught. If you take Julie's claims at face value he got a thrill from doing illegal things and loved to spite his family so it was the thrill as well as the money.

I don't see it as a test run, I see it more as demonstrating his greed and immaturity that he still got off  on petty crime that most people grow out of by the time they turn 21 and enjoyed spiting his family.

If this tale had been a literary work instead of real life the burglary this would be viewed as foreshadowing. 

I never heard the peeper claims it sounds made up.  Peepers tend more towards sexual crimes but if true would not be a good sign.         

As far as I remember, he wasn´t spying for some "peeping Tom" reason; he was contemplating breaking into their house.
Maybe I have been dreaming this! I THINK it was in some of Julie Mugford´s utterings.

[Adam]

As far as I remember, he wasn´t spying for some "peeping Tom" reason; he was contemplating breaking into their house.
Maybe I have been dreaming this! I THINK it was in some of Julie Mugford´s utterings.

Never read it.

[Steve_uk]

Jeremy saved up and paid for most of his 'jaunts' abroad.  I don't understand what was wrong with him travelling abroad and seeing other countries before he settled down.  Many, many late teens/early 20s go abroad either to the third world to work on projects or to Australia and New Zealand so it wasn't that unusual, especially with his public school background and education.
Don't think he was really on a labourers wage.  Farm labourers were very badly paid but Jeremy with his free house and car as well as his wages was very comfortable at 24.  I cannot believe the risk of killing all those people and not getting caught was worth it just to get a half a million quid a few years earlier than if he waited for Granny Speakman to die.....  doesn't ring true to me.

These public school types rarely have a sense of the value of money and I suspect the same in Jeremy's case. For them it's just a means to an end-enjoyment-not understanding how hard-earned it is by most ordinary folk.

[Alias]

But in some ways that's worse Alias if he's stealing for kicks why not kill for kicks as well. He told Julie how Nevill "put up a good fight for his age",suggesting that the whole thing was part entertainment for him.

I don´t know, Steve. I think we would have heard more about such behaviour if he had it in him to do this for a "kick". He would be stark raving mad, in my opinion, and would have had many violent episodes throughout his life. He hasn´t.

[scipio_usmc]

Jeremy saved up and paid for most of his 'jaunts' abroad.  I don't understand what was wrong with him travelling abroad and seeing other countries before he settled down.  Many, many late teens/early 20s go abroad either to the third world to work on projects or to Australia and New Zealand so it wasn't that unusual, especially with his public school background and education.
Don't think he was really on a labourers wage.  Farm labourers were very badly paid but Jeremy with his free house and car as well as his wages was very comfortable at 24.  I cannot believe the risk of killing all those people and not getting caught was worth it just to get a half a million quid a few years earlier than if he waited for Granny Speakman to die.....  doesn't ring true to me.

True he was getting well paid for the work he was doing but he was not satisfied with his wages and wanted more.  He was very jealous that his sister didn't have to work and was provide a place in london.  He was exactly thrilled that his mother offered to pay for Julie to stay elsewhere. Obviously part of that annoyance is she would no longer be in his bed but he also was not happy that Julie would have been provided a free place.   

For someone like him who feels he was being slightled to kill everyone so he would not have to work anymore and can enjoy the money right away and would get the entire fortune instead of having to share it with his sister or her kids is something that indeed happens. 

So the notion it is implausible is not correct.  Worse there is some evidence that suggests he was concerned about wills being changed. 

If it is a matter of whether it is more plausible he did it or more plausible the grand conspiracy alleged to have occurred then hands down much more believable he did it.

The only thing more incredible than the conspiracy claims themselves is the notion that this conspiracy could occur without any evidence left behind to prove it happened.

All the supposed evidence that demonstrated a conspiracy occurred has turned out to be lies and gross distortions. 

[Adam]

He was fairly well off, no doubt about it. + His future was secured in every way thinkable. If he did this, I don´t think the primary reason was greed. To me the killings seem "personal", very violent and overkill, very messy (except in the case of Sheila); not the cool, calculated murders some guilters make them out to be.

Money was the main motivator. The judge said it would total a lot more than £436,000. Which is well over a million pounds.

But there were lots other reasons. My recent thread shows this.

The caravan break in highlighted he was not afraid to upset his parents.

[maggie]

But in some ways that's worse Alias if he's stealing for kicks why not kill for kicks as well. He told Julie how Nevill "put up a good fight for his age",suggesting that the whole thing was part entertainment for him.

Hi Steve, anyone who carried out those murders unless mentally ill must be extremely wicked, whether they did it for money or for kicks or for a bit of both imo

[Steve_uk]

A vast amount of money to spend and still be in credit. Even more amazing is that he'd taken holidays, presumably paying for Julie AND he'd given her £400 pounds for a holiday to Malta, which in those days would certainly have bought her accommodation in a 5* hotel. There doesn't seem to have been any evidence of him borrowing from anywhere or much would have been made of it.

Didn't he get some money from Nevill's wallet? I don't believe he funded the trips abroad for himself either-more likely wangled a loan out of Nevill which everyone knew he would never be able to repay.

[Adam]

I doubt Jeremy enjoyed the 14 hour days. He would have no time or energy to act the suave playboy.

If the 14 hour days were during a long period over the year, that would have been a factor.