There was no reason why Sheila should wake: Was there ?

[Adam]

You mean the twins were really shot while awake in the kitchen ?

[maggie]

You mean the twins were really shot while awake in the kitchen ?

Think that is grossly bad taste Adam.

[Adam]

People say Sheila would have woken, put up a fight for her own & the twins life.

Not if the twins were shot first. She would still be sleeping.

If she put up a fight, why was she in the far corner of the main bedroom ? She would be in the middle of the main bedroom, in the hallway, or kitchen helping Neville.  Or in the twins bedroom trying to protect them.

[lookout]

You mean the twins were really shot while awake in the kitchen ?

Where's Mat to pull YOU up about that sickening post ??

I have RARELY spoken about the children,because that IS wrong,and in bad taste !! You obviously DON'T have children !!

[Adam]

Sheila being in the far corner of the main bedroom is the one thing that suggests she may have woken during the downstairs kitchen fight.

The natural thing to do would be to go where other adults are. Neville & June were her parents. No she was not abandoning her children, who were a few feet away across the corridor.

Jeremy returned upstairs carrying a rifle. A terrified and confused Sheila retreated into the corner.

However Jeremy could well have carried an asleep Sheila there. Or lead or dragged a half asleep and sedated Sheila there.

[maggie]

People say Sheila would have woken, put up a fight for her own & the twins life.
Not if the twins were shot first. She would still be sleeping.
If she put up a fight, why was she in the far corner of the main bedroom ? She would be in the middle of the main bedroom, in the hallway, or kitchen helping Neville.  Or in the twins bedroom trying to protect them.

You start your point by assuming Sheila was asleep but we don't know if she was, no one knows the answer to that.
I am far from certain why she was found where she was, there are various reasons and possibilities which we try to work out, fact is Sheila is a bit of a mystery there are various inconsistencies whether she was the killer or was killed. You try to make this case straight forward but it isn't, it's littered with dead ends and red herrings, that's part of the fascination for most innocents NOT because we are bamberettes which is how many guilters like yourself like to portray us

[Adam]

The silencer was certainly used. Accepted as evidence at trial and appeals. Not contested at trial by Jeremy and his lawyers.

Whether the twins were shot first or last, they made no noise as they were sleeping. 

June was shot in the neck with her head on the pillow. As well as another 6 times. She was barely able to move a few feet, let alone scream.  People usually scream prior to something happening as they are scared it will happen. With June it had already happened.

This thread is about 'why Sheila would wake'. Jeremy and Neville going downstairs would have been short term minimal noise.

Agree the fight was in another part of WHF. It was brutal as Neville's injuries show. See 2002 appeal.

Sheila had to die out of bed if it was frame. Neville woke & June crawled a few feet.


There is no reason Sheila should wake. Her bedroom door may well have  been shut. The twins & June were shot in bed. Most noise would be downstairs in another part of a big house.

[Adam]

Maggie says my mind is closed. I do not mind seeing proof that what has been accepted is not true.

If June was not shot in bed or there was not a kitchen fight etc, let me know.  With proof please.

[lookout]

 Maggie is right. Your mind IS closed,and what's more,you're blinkered too !

[Adam]

You start your point by assuming Sheila was asleep but we don't know if she was, no one knows the answer to that.
I am far from certain why she was found where she was, there are various reasons and possibilities which we try to work out, fact is Sheila is a bit of a mystery there are various inconsistencies whether she was the killer or was killed. You try to make this case straight forward but it isn't, it's littered with dead ends and red herrings, that's part of the fascination for most innocents NOT because we are bamberettes which is how many guilters like yourself like to portray us

I am just discussing the case on a discussion forum.

Going by the accepted 'FACTS' of the case, there is no reason why Sheila should wake. Is there ?

[lookout]

 There is every reason why Sheila would wake,,particularly if she wasn't asleep in the first place.
 It was a known FACT that Sheila could be heard screaming in the early hours at her Maida Vale home.

 Schizophrenics don't have the same sleep pattern as most of us.June also was a bad sleeper who had been treated for nightmares.Anyone whose mind is disturbed cannot sleep.

[maggie]

Maggie says my mind is closed. I do not mind seeing proof that what has been accepted is not true.

If June was not shot in bed or there was not a kitchen fight etc, let me know.  With proof please.

I don't understand how your mind works Adam, sorry. Do you ever question anything or just always accept what you are told? Do you never think, but? Maybe? If? Just because you are told something it doesn't mean it is true, it MAY be but it may NOT be.

[Adam]

The 2002 appeal said Sheila was under sedation. It was also 2am. People are often in a deep sleep then. Usually with their bedroom door shut.

Jeremy committing the massacre the way the facts portray, there is no reason why Sheila should wake.

But as I said there is a slim chance she woke. And retreated to the corner after seeing a gunman. Which is a natural thing to do.

[Adam]

I don't understand how your mind works Adam, sorry. Do you ever question anything or just always accept what you are told? Do you never think, but? Maybe? If? Just because you are told something it doesn't mean it is true, it MAY be but it may NOT be.

Tell me what you think then. I will consider it.

I am going by the evidence presented in court. Neville shot four times upstairs, the twins shot while asleep etc. If you do not believe this happened, let me know.

[maggie]

I am just discussing the case on a discussion forum.

Going by the accepted 'FACTS' of the case, there is no reason why Sheila should wake. Is there ?

The trouble is they may be your accepted facts, Adam. They may be the crown's accepted facts but that doesn't mean they are the COMPLETE facts. For a start so much was witheld by the prosecution from the defense and not disclosed at trial it does tend to make some believe it was an unfair trial. Our justice system then makes it dreadfully difficult to win an appeal because finding new evidence to prove innocence particularly when locked up in jail is extremely almost impossible. That is the reason innocent men lose many years of their lives for crimes they didn't commit. Doesn't it even slightly worry you that a man of 24 went to prison and is still there in his early fifties, he still claims innocence and this MAY be true?. IF there is the slightest chance he is innocent that is appalling .... surely you can understand that?