The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003

[buddy]

Has any of the sperm recovered been subjected to DNA testing?

[gordo30]

It all was but only a few ever yielded a match all to one person, the rest were either unidentified males or contaminated.

Those that were unidentified risk the problem were the full matches with no match to the DNA database or were the partial so couldn't be attributed to any singular person

No sample were matched to luke

[gordo30]

As part of the sccrc investigation the clothing (at what level I don't know) were retested and two further samples found on the zip of Jodi's jeans these were never put through the data base

[buddy]

As part of the sccrc investigation the clothing (at what level I don't know) were retested and two further samples found on the zip of Jodi's jeans these were never put through the data base

It seems that Jodi was pretty active sexually, and could have been involved in group sex.

[gordo30]

That's conjecture as of course all samples could relate to one individual and if you believe the transferrance theory then she may only have had one sexual partner.

There is other evidence to suggest otherwise but its whgwhgen you bring it forward we get abuse for discussing it, which I don't mind to be honest.

[buddy]

That's conjecture as of course all samples could relate to one individual and if you believe the transferrance theory then she may only have had one sexual partner.

There is other evidence to suggest otherwise but its whgwhgen you bring it forward we get abuse for discussing it, which I don't mind to be honest.

It must have been discovered at autopsy that Jodi was not a virgin.
I thought it was said on here that the sperm samples were not from one person.
I am not implying that Jodi was not a decent girl, but she could have generated a lot of male admirers.

[gordo30]

The DNA analysis is a shambles, labelling,instructions and so forth its impossible to say what they meant , the samples that proved a match swere all to one person but the other samp!es cannot be ruled out as his either.

Jodi was having sex with Luke so no need to establish her virginity.

[sandra L]

Reading through this thread again to catch up a bit I saw you list the police failings and one you said they failed to take the body temperature, I remember discussing this years ago and I always thought they had but said it was inconclusive because of the environment that night.

From memory, body temperature was not taken at the time the body was found, nor was it taken when the local doctor officially pronounced death at around 2am. Again from memory, I  believe the excuse for the temperature not being taken was that it would have been worthless because of the environment not only in which Jodi's body had lain for (what at the time of finding was claimed to be) six and a half hours, but for the environment in which her body was left by investigators for a further 8 - 8.5 hours. In my opinion, body temperature within six and a half hours could have yielded significant evidence, including evidence which may well have contradicted the official line that Jodi died at 5.15pm. Although it rained that evening, it was not cold - it had been a warm summer day, and was what I would describe as quite a "muggy" evening.

Do you remember how soon the autopsy took place after jodi was found?
Rigor mortis is always established at autopsy and is accurate up to 30 hours or so afterwards.

Yes, the post mortem began just after 3pm on the afternoon of July 1st, a fraction under 22 hours after it was claimed Jodi died.

Was there any entomology assessment done also?

Not to my knowledge. Insects/eggs were found in Jodi's nostrils, but I have never seen any report regarding these being examined, or what the outcome of such an examination was.

[buddy]

The DNA analysis is a shambles, labelling,instructions and so forth its impossible to say what they meant , the samples that proved a match swere all to one person but the other samp!es cannot be ruled out as his either.

Jodi was having sex with Luke so no need to establish her virginity.

I agree the DNA was a shambles. If luke was sexually involved with Jodi, I can see no reason
to kill her!

[buddy]

I don't believe the stocky theory.
I think Jodi was gang raped, and she was going to spill the beans.

[sandra L]

The DNA analysis is a shambles, labelling,instructions and so forth its impossible to say what they meant , the samples that proved a match swere all to one person but the other samp!es cannot be ruled out as his either.

Two full DNA matches were recovered from the scene - one was SK, and was found on Jodi's T shirt. The other was JaF and was found in the condom found "within a 50 yard radius of the body." Neither can be ruled out as contributors to the partial/mixed samples, neither can they be claimed to be contributors.

The condom was initially recorded as having been found "20 yards from the body" (although no direction was given) - how this morphed into such an ambiguous phrase as "within a 50 yard radius" is anybody's guess.

I believe the SCCRC only re-tested the trousers, and found further DNA (which was missed during the investigation) on the zipper and inside of the button hole. What the SCCRC does not appear to have sought is any sort of explanation for the dozens of tests which came back "inconclusive" or "no reportable result." Unless it is known what they were asked to report about it can never be known if there would have been reportable results for other factors - contrary to popular belief, the lab are not given samples and asked to "test for everything" - samples are sent with specific instructions.

For example, there was one report in the case papers regarding hair analysis. The report states that the lab had received hair from Jodi Jones and Luke Mitchell. All that report could say was that the hair attributed to Jodi appeared, in fact,  to be Jodi's, and none of the hairs found on her "matched" Luke's. What it did not (and could not) say was whether the hair that was not Jodi's "matched" anyone else's hair - the question was simply not asked.

I realise "matching" hair samples is not a technically correct term, but I have been pulled up before for responses which have been too technical, so have kept this simple.

[gordo30]

That's strange that eggs were found in such small quantity and only reported in one area, this is not the best topic but relevant as most flies lay eggs in wounds because of the natural moisture and around eyes,mouth and nostrils but in small quantity that would suggest a later death possibly before sunset as certain insect are only active during light.

What time was sundown on that day around 10pm?

[gordo30]

Sandra have you seen anywhere mainly in the autopsy or pathologists reports any estimate for time of death even if it was roughly taken

[sandra L]

That's strange that eggs were found in such small quantity and only reported in one area, this is not the best topic but relevant as most flies lay eggs in wounds because of the natural moisture and around eyes,mouth and nostrils but in small quantity that would suggest a later death possibly before sunset as certain insect are only active during light.

What time was sundown on that day around 10pm?

Yes, just after 10pm. Blowflies/bluebottles do not fly or lay eggs after dark, but are one of the first fly species to lay eggs on dead bodies (sometimes arriving within minutes and usually within half an hour of death occurring.) It is odd, though, that eggs were found only in the nose, but not in any of the other areas they would be expected to be found unless, as you say, death occurred (or at least, the body was exposed to the elements) at a later time than claimed. However, Jodi's body was left out, uncovered, until well after sunrise the following morning, so one would have expected eggs to have been laid in that period, when flies were active. Of course, it may be that there were eggs elsewhere that were either not recorded, or the records were lost?

[sandra L]

Sandra have you seen anywhere mainly in the autopsy or pathologists reports any estimate for time of death even if it was roughly taken

From memory, the autopsy accepted the police contention that Jodi had died in the "late afternoon/early evening"  of June 30th, but could not accurately (or even roughly) estimate any better than that due to lack of other supporting evidence, and the conditions in which the body had lain between finding and being transported to the morgue. The pathologist's evidence at trial was that no time of death could be ascertained.

I don't remember any other documents referring specifically to time of death. However during the first two weeks, police were appealing for anyone who had been on the path between 5pm and 10pm to come forward - did they, initially, believe Jodi had been killed later than 5.15pm? (They must have done, because they initially believed Jodi had left home at 5.30pm!)

I have hundreds of pages of notes, but these are a packed away, and would take quite a bit of time to pull out and search through.