Author Topic: The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003  (Read 730278 times)

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Offline marty

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Agreed. I obviously have no idea if the police thoroughly investigated the lies and changes in story from the non-Mitchells.

It is suspicious, to me, that both Luke and Shane are in the house together but aren't sure if the other is also in, but not impossible. And this gets a lot of attention and is possibly the main thing that got Luke convicted. But isn't it more suspicious that at the police's presumed time of death John Ferris's moped is seen unattended at the gap in the wall. His explanation is that he doesn't remember why, I think. And they're fine with that.

Name that tune in one

Offline nugnug

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well i wouldent be that suspicios that john ferris couldent rember exactly what he was doing but i thought he would at least remember vaguely.

and if you couple that with his falure to come forward it is highly suspicious.

Offline nugnug

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well the the qustion remains how did she think she had seen jodi if she dident know jodi and no pictures had been released.

Offline nugnug

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i dont know but the qustiion needs to be ansred how can you think you have seen 2 people when you have never met and have no idea what they look like.

Offline nugnug

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who did she see ive got no idea but as she dident know them she couldent of had any idea ethere.

so why she came forward is rather a mystory.


Offline nugnug

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but they dident show her the photo till after she had come forward before then she would of had no idea what luke and jodi looked like.

well avording to her she dident know them.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2015, 06:16:PM by nugnug »

Offline nugnug

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so how could she had seen jodi she cliamed she dident know jodi.

Offline nugnug

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how could say that if know idea whay jodi looked like.

Offline nugnug

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she said she had seen jodi with a boy when she came forward otherwise she wouldent of come forward they were appealing for witnesses who had seen jodi at the time not luke luke hadent been mentioned yet.

so the qustions how could she of thought that if she dident know jodi.

Neil

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I've seen you say this about every single person (whose surname isn't Mitchell) that gave evidence or provided a statement. You also make the same assumption that the jury was influenced by the media. This is pure speculation on your part. You assume all of these people are weak minded and easily influenced. Do you not think those involved understood the seriousness of the situation and knew it wasn't something to be taken lightly? Do you really think the high school teacher who testified that Luke Mitchell definitely owned a parka before the murder (staff said he resembled a hooded monk) was too naive to understand the seriousness of a murder trial and give it his utmost consideration?

You're too quick to dismiss all of these people with nothing to support your theory that every last one of them are simply being dim-witted. Isn't it you who's being naive to make such assumptions and write off so many statements? Is it not far more likely that respectively they are all more or less giving accurate accounts (you've yet to come out and declare any reason they had for lying) which combined amount to evidence?
Excellent post. 

Sandra makes a good case for the defence but the jury heard ALL the evidence, first hand.  They would have been warned repeatedly about being influenced by media coverage. 

Offline nugnug

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yes they would of been warned but i doubt if they would of taken any notice.

Offline nugnug

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source?

well it simple logic she dident know luke mitchell so she wouldent of said luke mitchell would she.

to do that she would of had to have known both of them and anybody who has followed the case knows that she cliamed not to know ethere of them.


Offline sandra L

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You assume all of these people are weak minded and easily influenced...You're too quick to dismiss all of these people with nothing to support your theory that every last one of them are simply being dim-witted

I have never suggested that these people were weak minded, easily influenced or dim-witted. I have suggested, repeatedly, that police tactics in cases like these are designed to elicit the answers they (the police) want. It's a  recognised process, well documented by many experts, and they use it because it works.

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Is it not far more likely that respectively they are all more or less giving accurate accounts

No, because (a) they're not, and (b) "retrospectively" is the giveaway - you can get anything "accurate" once you've been given all of the information you need to be "accurate." None of these witnesses was anywhere near accurate initially (although, bizzarely, many gave the same mistaken timings - like 9 separate people from 4 different homes.)

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She knew it was Luke from the police photo/ Doesn't matter, she knew what the person she seen looked like, and recognized him in the paper (which had his name printed along with it.)

The photo was show to her 6 weeks later. It did not resemble, in any way, the description she gave police. You don't think there were any leding/suggestive tactics used here?

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around 50 minutes before he was seen alone at the opposite side of the path by Lorraine Fleming who described him as looking like he was "up to no good?"

For accuracy, Fleming and Walsh both gave this "evidence" in court, and both were pulled up by Findlay because neither had used that particular phrase in any of their police statements. He asked if it was merely coincidence that two people, who were not supposed to be discussing the case, happened to use exactly the same phrase, one after the other, a phrase neither had used before. Neither of their descriptions matched Luke either. Both said they did not see his face, one was absolutely clear she would only recognise him from his clothes - she then identified a youth in a suit and tie in court! (There was never any suggestion that the youth seen outside Newbattle Abbey College (and not the entrance to the path) was wearing a suit and tie.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 07:32:AM by sandra L »

Offline sandra L

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Sandra makes a good case for the defence but the jury heard ALL the evidence, first hand.  They would have been warned repeatedly about being influenced by media coverage.

No, the jury didn't hear all of the evidence - far from it. They didn't hear Ferris's claim that it was Alice Walker who told him not to come forward. They didn't hear that at least 6 members of the Jones/Walker and Dickie families knew they were on the path, and kept schtum for nearly a week. They didn't hear anything at all about Falconer or Kane (including the witness who would have been able to tell them that Kane wore a Parka jacket in the weeks prior to the murder, and how she could be sure of that).

They didn't hear about Joseph and a 9 bar (or anything else about Joseph, in fact). They didn't hear about the forensic report that stated the possibility that a number of semen/sperm samples may have come from one person (further testing required) and that person was not Luke Mitchell. Or the education professionals who were willing to testify that the stuff on Luke's jotters was "tame" and nothing at all unusual, in their experience, or that the claimed "satanic" slogans were lines from a computer game.

They didn't hear that, rather than the finely detailed story about Jodi coming in from school, sitting listening to a song with her mother and brother, then kissing her mother before leaving to meet Luke, Judith had no idea what time Jodi came in or left, where she was going, or what she was planning to do. She hadn't a clue what Jodi was wearing, and told police she remembered Jodi sitting on the settee trying to talk to her (Judith) and Judith was telling Jodi to "be quiet, shoo and go out."

And that's only a fraction of what the jury didn't get to hear.

Even if the jury was warned to ignore the media coverage (experts have since pointed out that this would have been impossible because, after so long, it would not be possible for people to identify, far less erase information which had been absorbed over that length of time) it seems Nimmo Smith himself was influenced by media coverage. At sentencing, three weeks after the end of the trial (when the media had had a field day) he said he thought cannabis had made Luke unable to tell the difference between right and wrong (no expert evidence was given about the effects of cannabis) and that he believed Luke had carried the Dahlia images in his mind (to commit a "copycat" murder), yet there was no evidence whatsoever at trial that Luke had ever seen those pictures - it was purely conjecture by the prosecution. How did Nimmo Smith come to those "conclusions" - it was certainly not on the basis of evidence at trial?

Offline sandra L

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She said the female "could be" Jodi.

When did she say that? And how could she have said that - when she first came forward on July 1st, there were no pictures of Jodi available? The description of clothing she gave was nothing like what Jodi was wearing, and she did not see her face - in fact, initially she said she "presumed" the person she saw was female. So she could not have said the female "could have been Jodi" when she first came forward, because she (a) would have nothing on which to base such a claim and (b) her own description was so far removed from a description of Jodi that, if she had known  what Jodi looked like, she would have been able to tell police the person she saw did not look like that.

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She's on record as being unable to identify the female

Correct!