Author Topic: The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003  (Read 1055432 times)

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Offline andrea

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I know who she means lol, it's the group I was referring to. Anyone wishing to take action regarding something anonymously can be Anonymous. It's not a group with membership where you join etc.


I thought it was!! ive seen Anon Australia etc. Oh well!
On Ilkley Moor Baht'at.

Offline gordo30

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Its strange just what selective posting can do.

I slept on what you said about the DNA and none of Jodi's on Luke but it always sat rather uneasy with me. I then remembered that and confirmed by the articles what I knew.

In the press release once again they stop short in stating that the trousers that had Jodi's DNA on them were the ones Luke had worn that day. We knew about a pair of trousers that  were recovered from Lukes home after the 1st search that had been found with her DNA. I believe thats why the innocent tansfer defence was easily established and fought out by Findley. Like I said if it had been extracted from any suspicious material then it would have been jumped on more.

Theres also something rather strange about the 2nd report about him describing the clothing as I know he was asked to describe what she had on that day and until I find something to show you today sometime this will remain like this for me.

As for me believing Luke guilty you presume way too much and do not explain away anything that hold as the firmist points for me to Lukes innocence.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 11:29:AM by gordo30 »

Offline gordo30

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I have addressed many questions to  you and that I can't help feeling your either swearving and or just unable to answer. I would love for you to go over the last3/4 posts I have made and give me your opinion.

Offline gordo30

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Luke had Jodi's full DNA on his trousers, this is a fact that wasn't up for debate at the time, Findlay even took it upon himself to provide innocent explanations for it at the trial, as I demonstrated. So seeing things like this on the WAP page:
"Forensic evidence belonging to several other people was found at the scene and on the body, although none of Luke’s ever was." is a lie. Plain and simple.

I wonder which part of this is a lie?

I didn't ask you if you believed that the semen was SK's or not, better and more qualified people than yourself have already confirmed that to me. I asked if you thought it reasonable when there are multiple samples of semen/spermheads present on the garments at a murder scene to infer that all these samples came from the 1 individual?
Is it possible that when all the samples were tested that those that came back as nonreportable were from another individual but those that were tested and the individual identified meant that only those sample's were his?

If possible can you give me your reasoning as to just how and why so many seperate samples exist on most if not all garments?


Offline gordo30

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He also described the clothes Jodi was wearing the night she was killed.

That line it just seems rather cursory don't you think. I mean here we have an article which basicly describes the content of what had went on in the court that day but nothing in regards to how Lukes team put up a defence against what was said. If im honest Im not sure if I can relate the sentence to the police interview that was heard in court.
Do we hear Luke describe the clothes on tape? or is it just him giving the police his assertions as to why Jodi hadn't turned up? The article then goes on to state how Luke did not inform them that he had called Jodi's house, am I to believe that the jury were made to hear a tape that contained something that Luke didn't say!!!
The article is very unclear and to base some miraculous assumption that Luke had made a terrible mistake in describing something that he should not have been able to is weak.

If I give you an example of a police interview that could describe how Luke managed to pin point an item of clothing that Jodi had on that day.
When he was asked how Jodi normally wore her hair he stated that she sometimes left it down but on other occasions it was up. When prompted to describe how she wore it up he said that she sometimes used a scrunchy. He was further prompted to disclose what colour of scrunchy she used and he stated that he had noticed her wearing a red scrunchy. Inadvertantly describing an article of clothing Jodi wore that day.
Im not saying that this  is an explanation for what your inferring but It is a plausible explanation as to what the article is trying to say and until you come up with something concrete about what his description of the clothes were then this issue for me remains unclear from your point of view.

I would also have thought that the prosecution would have jumped all over such a claim but did they? is there a follow up article which defines how Findley defends against such claims,is there even anything in the press that shows that the prosecution made even the marginlist arguement on this point. I tend not to go along with these snippets in the press as they become very misleading as I have pointed out and any arguement based on them.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 11:32:AM by gordo30 »

Offline gordo30

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"The High Court in Edinburgh heard no genetic material from Luke Mitchell, which could not be "innocently explained", was found on her body.

Jodi's DNA was found on the accussed's trousers but this could have occurred through an "innocent transfer"

It was even raised in court by Luke's defence:

"Donald Findlay QC, defending Luke Mitchell, suggested to Ms Ure that DNA could be found in a completely "sinister place but have a wholly innocent explanation" to which she agreed.
Mr Findlay said the court had heard in some detail of Jodi and Luke's relationship and added: "Boyfriend, girlfriend, being intimate with each other.
"The girl brutally done to death and a young man sitting in court here charged with her murder.
"Looking at that picture, erin all the DNA analyses you carried out one, and only one, bit of Jodi's DNA was found on Luke's trousers and that could be a pfectly innocent transfer."
Ms Ure replied: "Yes it could."

The more I read this article the more if reaffirms just how misleading these articles are.

"The High Court in Edinburgh heard no genetic material from Luke Mitchell, which could not be "innocently explained", was found on her body.

This part states that no DNA was found on the body! but before that it states that no DNA that could not be accounted for was found on the body!! why not just say it as it is that NO DNA of Lukes was found on the body. its confirmed by the next few lines that state

"Looking at that picture, in all the DNA analyses you carried out one, and only one, bit of Jodi's DNA was found on Luke's trousers and that could be a perfectly innocent transfer."
Ms Ure replied: "Yes it could.


Not only that but the trousers that it was found on were indeed the ones taken from the house that Luke hadn't worn in a few days prior to the murder. I can deduce that from the part directly quoted from Findlay " all the DNA analyses you carried out one, and only one, bit of Jodi's DNA was found on Luke's trousers"

It can be further confirmed as this sample was again if my memory is correct female bodily fliuds as attested to by Findlay again here "Boyfriend, girlfriend, being intimate with each other. and agreed toby the forensic witness.

Offline gordo30

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Forensic evidence belonging to several other people was found at the scene and on the body, although none of Luke’s ever was."

I would gladly give my opinion if you point out which part of that statement contains the lie?

Offline nugnug

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your very good at screaming liar lithium witch usually the sighn of somone who is lying themselves.

Offline nugnug

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I'm not arguing that it could be innocent but my point was it's a lie for WAP to be running around saying there is absolutely no DNA evidence to link the 2. Don't you agree?
Thanks for your earlier replies which I will respond to when I get the chance to give them the thought and response that they warrant. What do you think of nugnug now claiming Jodi had the same clothes on all day btw

they have not lied they said none of lukes dna was found at the murder and none of it was.

Offline sandra L

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Sorry I couldnt get back on to post sooner - my internet connection at home has been down since Monday morning. As I'm not at home, though, I don't have access to the papers, so please bear with me!

I have already explained that I cannot post the actual documents which provide the sort of "proof" Lithium is asking for, but to deal with some of the points which have come up since I've been offline:

Judith mentioned Joseph's illness in court, during her evidence, so that information is in the public domain. The background to that evidence is not public nowledge, however, but there have been discussions about it on several inernet sites. So no,, he was not just a regular, healthy guy, sadly, he had a mental illness which had been, according to Judy herself, "difficult" for the family to deal with. I have seen the statements which make reference to these matters, and they confirm the extent of the illness - I can't, obviously, quote from the medical reports, as that would be both unlawful and completely inappropriate.

Those of us who try to highlight the various points in this case are continually hampered by the ridiculous state of afairs in Scotland whereby we can't simply post the documents and be done, but that is the way of it.

Joseph's illness does not make him a murderer, and no-one on WAP has ever made such a claim. The questions raised by his illness, and the behaviours that illness had previously manifested, are what concern me - why were they not properly checked out?

Hypothetically, if you're investigating a brutal and violent murder with a bladed weapon, an attacker who apparently switches from "frenzied" to so calm as to be almost unconcerned about being caught, the potential that there was a sexual element or motivation to the attack, and a victim found in a place where the family claim she would only go with someone she knew, if someone crosses the radar with a mental illness which causes sudden violent outbursts, those outbursts sometimes involving bladed instruments, a sexual theme or element running through that illness, and that someone is related to the victim, should that, or should it not, be a matter for closer investigation?

The claims that I have "accused" everyone connected to Jodi's family is nonsense - I have never accused anyone, and never would. I have always stated that my concerns are with the manner in which the investigation was carried out, and anywhere glaring anomalies exist, I have done my best to highlight them, because they undermine the safety of Lue's conviction.

The DNA "from Jodi" on Luke's trousers, I will double check the DNA reports when I get home, and try to post tomorrow - I'm not prepared to comment from memory (although I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this).

Interestingly, a full DNA profile from blood was found on a T shirt taken from Luke Mitchell's home. The "summary report" regarding this full profile simply lists items of Luke's on which full profiles for blood were found. There were never used in evidence. Seems strange doesn't it? If full DNA profiles for blood were found on items of Luke's clothing, you'd have thought the prosecution would have been screaming it from the rooftops.  It took me several days to hunt down the samples from which these profiles were obtained (there are many, many pages of DNA evidence). That's when I realised just how misleading the "summary report" was - the DNA was Luke's own!

Luke describing Jodi's clothing "that night" - be careful when quoting from newspaper articles! Again, I will post the exact wording of both the question preceding the description, and Luke's exact words in response tomorrow. I'm sorry I can't do it today, but I had no way of knowing what had come up in discussion while my internet was down, so couldn't have known what papers would be needed.

As for Joseph threatening me, I understand why Jodi's family are upset by what I do, and I always have done. I have offered to meet with Judy, and I offered to show Joseph the DNA results the day he was at my door, because I believe Jodi's family have been horribly misled and manipulated which is disgusting - lying to a grieving family, convincing them of something the police had no evidence to support, and so on is unforgivable. Of course Jodi's family have to believe Luke is guilty - the alternative is unthinkable for them.

But that does not extend to accepting the family lying about events, as Judith has now been proven  to have done. She publicly accused me of lying about Joseph threatening me, claiming, instead, that he had "visited" me to talk to me about the website, and that no threat of any description had been made. What she and Joseph did not know was that I was not alone in the house that day, but had an independent  witness, who had been visiting me when Joseph arrived at the door,  standing directly behind the door, out of sight of Joseph, who heard every word. Joseph later admitted threatening me, yet Judy's accusation came after that admission.

The multiple semen samples on the various articles of clothing - none of them provided full profiles (obviously) but one of the biggest outstanding questions in this case is, if those samples were re-tested, would that still be the case? Similarly, the "no reportable results" samples - would they come back the same with more sensitive testing?

No matter whether you are in the "guilty" camp or the "innocent" camp, don't you think it's just too risky to have no confirmation, one way or the other, about all those DNA profiles remaining "unidentified?"

I have to go now - I will try to post at some point tomorrow.

Offline nugnug

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nugnug you're an idiot you can think what you want and I'll never care about your opinion. I'm sure gordo doesn't think I'm lying. Gordo the quote you posted maybe not but are you really saying Luke's supporters have never claimed he had none of Jodi's DNA on him? "so how did he go home and wash her dna off him and his clothes in that time?!" I believe you argued yourself.  Btw there was 'partial DNA' that 'could be' Luke. Luke defenders are always mentioning how the body was left uncovered in the rain all night which could have washed DNA off. Again, can't have it both ways. There is no proof Kelly's blood is on the body, it 'could be' his blood. Kelly himself has never even heard any mention of his blood being on there by police. It's pathetic that Sandra has you all running around saying his blood was on there and it isn't anywhere near confirmed. Another example of 'evidence' being greatly exaggerated which I forgot about earlier is the "striking resemblance" between MK and Luke. They look nothing alike, trust me.

i find resorting to childish name calling is the sighn of someone who knows they are loseing the arguement

why should anybody trust you..

« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 12:45:PM by nugnug »

Offline nugnug

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well you must do or you wouldn't reply.

Offline nugnug

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you said he dident have one witch makes you look like the one who is lying.

you said he had a job and a girlfriend and was perfectly normal.

though there's no reason a mentally ill man might not have those things.

you also said he does not have criminal record witch you could not possibly know.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 01:05:PM by nugnug »

Offline nugnug

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nugnug, I dedicated only the first sentence of my last post to you and it was just to tell you I don't care what you think. You've proved yet again you lack basic reading comprehension and I'd rather this was discussed in an adult manner so I'm now going to explain to you for the 3rd time I'm talking to Sandra and Gordo in this thread and I could do without your pointless posts that lack any substance or information. You have more posts than anyone on WAP yet not a single useful one, which leads me to believe you're someones alternate account.

you dont decide who can and cant post here.

Offline gordo30

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Gordo the quote you posted maybe not but are you really saying Luke's supporters have never claimed he had none of Jodi's DNA on him?
It was sentence you posted that I quoted from you when you were trying to say that we were lying in regards to there being no DNA of Jodi on Luke, I think you realise now that the sentence contained no lie!

"so how did he go home and wash her dna off him and his clothes in that time?!" I believe you argued yourself.

I don't argue this point remember I believe Luke to be innocent so there was no washing of DNA off Luke.! however I do pose the same question to yourself how do  you feel he was able to do that as this has to constitute part of the theory for those who believe him guilty, I only discuss this or add it to debate for your benefit only. Im wondering when the time comes when someone can explain this to me as in the last 5 years of being interested in the case no one has.

Btw there was 'partial DNA' that 'could be' Luke. Luke defenders are always mentioning how the body was left uncovered in the rain all night which could have washed DNA off. Again, can't have it both ways.

I wonder what would go down better in court, that Luke partially killed Jodi or simply that he did? The partial DNA sample arguement has no grounds as these samples could partially belong to you or I. Theres a great site online called idiots guide to DNA (thats not me trying to be insulting there actually is) and I have used it before, its worth a read.
The rain scenario is kinda neither here nor there as it possibly could have or it possibly may not have, can we have it both ways well,I suppose yes in that there were full profiles extracted after the rain as well as those that couldn't, shame for you guys that the only ones the rain did destroy were all Lukes. Is anyone a mathamatician and could maybe quantify the probablity of this happening?

Quote
Kelly himself has never even heard any mention of his blood being on there by police.

To be honest Kelly hadn't heard of any of the DNA of his found at the scene such was the way the investigation proceeded to insulate some and leave Luke open to everything.

It's pathetic that Sandra has you all running around saying his blood was on there and it isn't anywhere near confirmed. Another example of 'evidence' being greatly exaggerated which I forgot about earlier is the "striking resemblance" between MK and Luke. They look nothing alike, trust me.

I suppose Dr Lean has done all she could in respect to what she has done on this case. Lets face it the DNA records state that the sample alluded to here was labelled blood and who is she to contest this really when people we trust to do things properly don't but what if they have done everything properly and it is his blood.