How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?

[scipio_usmc]

One of the reasons I am willing to accept that Jeemy is guilty = if he had an accomplice. Doesn´t explain the folly of "staging" a suicide with two shots though.
Since an accomplice is not on the table, so to speak, my conclusion is: Jeremy didn´t do it.

There wa sno need for an acocmplice.  The folly of 2 shots is easily explainable- he botched the shot.

You yourself admit it would have been hard for him to take a long rifle and hold it so that the bullet could go from the location of the shot up into her head. If SHeila moved her head it would be even worse. The shot is not very angled- he botched it.

Your claim that he definitely would have waite d along time to see if she would die before delivering another shot is not supported by anything. You just made it up.

You accuse others of making up ridicuous things but you are the one who constantly does so.

[susan]

Alias how did Jeremy get Sheila to sit still whilst he shot her also what was she doing whilst he shot her boys she would have fought with him that is for sure.

[scipio_usmc]

Good Lord, can´t you utter one sentence without being nasty?

I don´t accept your scenario, it is faulty and does not explain how Sheila was shot. Sheila sitting on the floor, Jeremy crouching down in an odd position firing from the hip in an upwards shot does not cut it for e. It didn´t happen that way. It doesn´t help calling me names, I am just not buying what you claim.

It does indeed explain how she was shot.

Your suggestions of how she was shot are NOT SUPPORTED by the blood evidence, and much more uncomfortable and make no sense at all.

You need to prove what I proposed is not possible but you can't.

The blood evidence proves what you proposed is not possible.

I don't care if you want to believe stupid things but calling the clams of others wild simply because you choose to believe things that ar eimpossible and stupid doesn't make them wild it makes your own beliefs wild.

[Alias]

There wa sno need for an acocmplice.  The folly of 2 shots is easily explainable- he botched the shot.

You yourself admit it would have been hard for him to take a long rifle and hold it so that the bullet could go from the location of the shot up into her head. If SHeila moved her head it would be even worse. The shot is not very angled- he botched it.

Your claim that he definitely would have waite d along time to see if she would die before delivering another shot is not supported by anything. You just made it up.

You accuse others of making up ridicuous things but you are the one who constantly does so.

Seriously, I don´t make much up, but rather stick to what I can see - for instance that Sheila moved her hand up to her wound between shots, which resulted in the bloodstreams down her right lower arm. Jeremy¨s shots could not have happened in quick succession, as those streams needed some time to form. Not much time, but still a minute or so.
What you claim makes no sense when you look at the blood evidence on Sheila.

[Alias]

Alias how did Jeremy get Sheila to sit still whilst he shot her also what was she doing whilst he shot her boys she would have fought with him that is for sure.

As far as I am cencerned, he didn´t. Not alone at least.
No one has been able to explain what Sheila was doing while her whole family were being shot. Some claim she slept through it all: gunshots, screams, dogs barking, a fight. I don´t subscribe to that! Where was she? What was she doing?

[scipio_usmc]

Alias how did Jeremy get Sheila to sit still whilst he shot her also what was she doing whilst he shot her boys she would have fought with him that is for sure.

1) He could have shot the boys after shooting her

2) If she wasn't dead when he shot her boys she coudl have been in bed or lookig at her dead mother and thus not have seen him kill her boys

3) She thus may not have known they were dead when he killed her

4) He could potentially have used the threat to kill them to get her to sit.  He could have used the threat to shoot her to get her to sit.  He could have physically forced her to sit.

Her medicine acted as a sedative.  We don't know how much that played in to her complying as opposed to being physically forced, threatened with the gun or threatening to kill her kids.

5) The botched shot could have resulted from her moving her head.  If he forced her to hold her head back but then she lowered her head that could account for why the angle was so slight.  We have no way to know is she stayed still or not when he fired and thus whether he just botched the shot totally or she moved her head.


 

[Alias]

Why would he need her to sit on the floor? To make it more difficult for him to shoot her?

[scipio_usmc]

Seriously, I don´t make much up, but rather stick to what I can see - for instance that Sheila moved her hand up to her wound between shots, which resulted in the bloodstreams down her right lower arm. Jeremy¨s shots could not have happened in quick succession, as those streams needed some time to form. Not much time, but still a minute or so.
What you claim makes no sense when you look at the blood evidence on Sheila.

You do indeed make things up.

You just made up that an acocmplice would be needed though you have never been able to explain why one was necessary let alone is there any evidenc eof one.

Jeremy's shots could indeed have happened seconds apart what would nto be possible is for her to shoot seconds apart and account for her her body was found.

If your claim were true that she moved her hand up to her wound then she could not have shot herself as quickly as she was shot based on the amount of bleeding that occurred.

But there is no evidence her hand directly touched her wound.  The blood that dripped onto her arm dripped form a distance then leaked down to her wrist/outside of her palm.  The blood on her wrists and outside of her palm wasn't from touching the wound.

Your claims ar eall unsupportable you jsut make things up then claim it is more believable that the evidence was planted in a giant conspiracy than that Jeremy did anythign and call the tales of Jeremy doing it wild though you have no basis to do so. 

[susan]

Alias I agree with every word YOU say and I am not in denial about Jeremy Bambers guilt it is I have not heard one credible explanation as to how he committed these murders single handed  I for one do not think Sheila had been to sleep and her medication did not make her sleepy I really wish somebody would come up with an explanation as to how these murders were carried out.  The photo's WE have seen are not what was found at the scene they are staged photo's that is obvious.

[Alias]

The blood didn´t drip - it ran down her arm. No evidence of dripping. She held her wrist/hand/side of either, I don´t know - up to the wound. I have seen this happening before my eyes. We have been here bofore, and I don´t like repetitions. You have your view of what happened, that is fine. I don´t accept your view, since it makes little sense, that is also fine.

[Alias]

Alias I agree with every word YOU say and I am not in denial about Jeremy Bambers guilt it is I have not heard one credible explanation as to how he committed these murders single handed  I for one do not think Sheila had been to sleep and her medication did not make her sleepy I really wish somebody would come up with an explanation as to how these murders were carried out.  The photo's WE have seen are not what was found at the scene they are staged photo's that is obvious.

Sheila has to be turned into some kind of zombie to make the guilter´s scenarios fit the shooting of her. The killer(s) had to deal with two children and three grown ups, not two children, two grown ups and a zombie!

[scipio_usmc]

As far as I am cencerned, he didn´t. Not alone at least.
No one has been able to explain what Sheila was doing while her whole family were being shot. Some claim she slept through it all: gunshots, screams, dogs barking, a fight. I don´t subscribe to that! Where was she? What was she doing?

There is no way to know for sure what she was doing.

You have no way to establish that she wasn't asleep while everyone else was murdered.  You have no way to establish that she didn't wake up and then walk out of her room and see June and go sit mourning her mother.

These are plausible things she could have been doing.  That is all one needs to do, spell out plausible things she could have been doing.

You are the contradictory mess not me.  You insist police would not have heard shots fired, admit the boys did not hear anything and didn't wake up but claim it is not plausible for Sheila to not have woken up and heard even though she was on a medication that made her drowsy constantly.  When you feel like it you quote Colin but anything he says that is inconvenient like how he rmedication made her tired and she was constantly subdued is ignored. 

You bear the burden of establishing Sheila could not have been asleep and could not have done nothing as Jeremy killed the others but rather would have attacked him and done so successfully- but you can't.

Can you explain the lack of evidence on Sheila?  No but you ignore it and chooose not to dicuss the fact that Sheila would have broken nails and got wounds from the fight with Nevill, would have gotten his blood on her and would have gotten GSR from firing the weapon 25 times.  So SHeila would have no evidence but if there had not been an acocmplice then Sheila would have deifnitely done something to Jeremy according to you.

You are just making things up as you fgo along not following the evidence wher eit leads.

You just choose to believe the suppressor evidence wa splanted because that in particular establishes Sheila can't have shot herself.  Better to believe it was planted than that Jeremy would sit her down and shoot her trying to make it look like she committed suicide. 

Your positons are extremely hypocritical, contractor and lacking in any sense.  You claim the arguments of your opponensts ar ethese things but have no ability to prove it while your positions have been exposed and shreeded.

[Alias]

I am tired of you claiming I have said things, which I have never once in all my time here said. I have never said anything about police hearing or not hearing shots outside.

I find that much of what you say is speculation put forward as "fact", and more than that, you don´t notice much who says what. I find that highly irritating. Done with you. And no, that is not a "victory" for you, just a hint that maybe you should learn to behave.

[lookout]

 Continuing with the" anti-Bamber " version on Sheilas' behaviour.
 In 1985,,she was described as critical before being persuaded by her father to go into hospital as another breakdown was imminent,,so in March of that year,,Sheila returned to St Andrews,,having been there 2 years prior.
It was a very traumatic time because Sheila had refused to be treated or examined by the doctors/psychiatrists,,saying that everyone was trying to poison her. However,after two months,,it appeared that she was well enough to leave hospital,,armed with sedatives and sleeping pills because her nights were torturous through lack of sleep.

While in hospital,,Sheila turned to religion and had developed positive religious beliefs,,but Sheilas' friends became worried by this new and enthusiastic development,where she was re-living her adolescent years and the troubles they brought her,,particularly with her mother,,so sadly this was seen as a repeat of the pattern how it used to be.

When Sheila was discharged from hospital,,she went to stay at WHF,,and it wasn't the happiest place for her,,nor the happiest welcome because the two women ended up in a rage about religion,and Sheila accusing her mother of losing her soul.

Once back in her own home,,both women heaved a sigh of relief,,except that once Sheila was home,,she was full of bitterness against both parents,,which never left her,,not even being in her own home was enough to alleviate the strong feelings against her parents,,and showed her anger to her friend by telling her of her parents attitude towards her after having been ill. That her mother didn't want to listen to anything that she said,,which Sheila resented Junes' whole approach about.

Now,,think about how things panned out between these two women on the night of 6/7th August 1985 !

[scipio_usmc]

Why would he need her to sit on the floor? To make it more difficult for him to shoot her?

He was trying to make it look like a suicide.  She needed to be seated to be able to shoot herself.  She also would be more controllable seated than standing.  Standing is not easier, she could run away and move more than she could if seated.

Moreover, holding the gun under her as she was standing would give her the opportunity to grab the whole rifle.  He already went through that with Nevill.  Sitting her down and moving her head back was vastly superior and that is how he did the second shot.  After he nertebrae was broken her head could move further back so this actually helped.  Her head could be so far back that her chin could have been facing him as he shot her.